Where's the best place to go for an engine overhaul?

[nickmatic]

I had a low oil pressure indication in my Mooney Encore the other day and made a precautionary landing in Myrtle Beach, SC. There was debris in the oil pressure regulator causing it to fail and the shop there looked at the oil filter and found non-ferrous metal, indicating it's time for an overhaul. I had been seeing the oil blacken quickly so I knew this was coming. The engine is at about 1330 hours. 

Shop there quoted me $35,000 for an overhaul including magnetos, harness, spark plugs, turbocharger and new cylinders. They plan to reuse the starter, exhaust system and wastegate controller (was just overhauled a couple months ago).

I've replaced a couple cylinders already and am pretty overwhelmed and beat up from spending money on this engine (welcome to airplane ownership, I know). Can anyone offer advice or a place to ship the engine for a better deal?

The shop there says the next step is to take the engine apart to see what's really going on. Long story short, I'm not super familiar with the overhaul process and want to feel comfortable that I'm not getting a bad deal or doing work I don't need to do.

Edited May 8, 2017 by nickmatic

[M20F]

What are the time on all they cylinders?  Is the 1300hrs total time or time since last overhaul?

[Guest]

Wouldn't finding the source of the metal be a first step before thinking of an overhaul?  Pistons are aluminum and wrist pin plugs are aluminum, both are known to shed pieces.  An internal cylinder inspection would be a starting point, quickly blackening oil is a sign of cylinder issues.

Clarence

[75_M20F]

Penn Yan Aero

https://www.pennyanaero.com/

Free online instant quote if you fill out the info on the website  / 3 year warranty

(I just used them for my overhaul.) 

[gsengle]

I was thrilled with my io360 overhaul in my previous aircraft (Arrow)

Not sure how they are with Continental


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[nickmatic]

6 minutes ago, gsengle said:

I was thrilled with my io360 overhaul in my previous aircraft (Arrow)

Not sure how they are with Continental


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Done by whom?

[nickmatic]

23 minutes ago, Mooney_Mike said:

Penn Yan Aero

https://www.pennyanaero.com/

Free online instant quote if you fill out the info on the website  / 3 year warranty

(I just used them for my overhaul.) 

Thanks. Online quote was 2x what the shop in SC wants to do. Will call them in the morning to see what they offer.

[nickmatic]

59 minutes ago, M20F said:

What are the time on all they cylinders?  Is the 1300hrs total time or time since last overhaul?

1300 total

[gsengle]

Done by whom?

Penn Yan


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[nickmatic]

58 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Wouldn't finding the source of the metal be a first step before thinking of an overhaul?  Pistons are aluminum and wrist pin plugs are aluminum, both are known to shed pieces.  An internal cylinder inspection would be a starting point, quickly blackening oil is a sign of cylinder issues.

Clarence

That's basically the next step the shop in SC is proposing, no?

[75_M20F]

15 minutes ago, nickmatic said:

Thanks. Online quote was 2x what the shop in SC wants to do. Will call them in the morning to see what they offer.

They (Penn Yan) are not the cheapest place, but they do excellent work. (They back that up with a 3 year warranty.) https://www.pennyanaero.com/pdf/pya-overhauled-engines

It is surprising you can get it done for 1/2 their price though.

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Mooney_Mike

[tls pilot]

A fine place with so much expercience is Columbia in PA

Call and speak to Doug. Honest folks who will quote a fair rate and will not pull any surprises on you.

Quality timely work. 

They have been in business for 40+ yrs

http://www.columbiaaircraftservices.com/

[nickmatic]

21 minutes ago, Mooney_Mike said:

They (Penn Yan) are not the cheapest place, but they do excellent work. (They back that up with a 3 year warranty.) https://www.pennyanaero.com/pdf/pya-overhauled-engines

It is surprising you can get it done for 1/2 their price though.

 

Well their web site gives a quote for a complete replaced engine. It'll undoubtedly be less expensive when I speak to them as a few things on the engine are recently overhauled or in working condition.

[nickmatic]

15 minutes ago, tls pilot said:

A fine place with so much expercience is Columbia in PA

Call and speak to Doug. Honest folks who will quote a fair rate and will not pull any surprises on you.

Quality timely work. 

They have been in business for 40+ yrs

http://www.columbiaaircraftservices.com/

Good one, thanks!

[aaronk25]

http://www.jewellaviation.com/pdf/Price%20Sheet%202017%20Engines.pdf

Call and talk to David or Sam. All sam does is engine rebuilds. I had him do my plane. It looks like your overhaul starts at $18k and change. There in rural MO and labor is less. I got a referral from a guy that my banker knew out of Milwaukee area that has done 2 sets of overhauls on a turbo 337 Cessna twin who was very pleased. I was in same boat as you and ended up driving my engine down there. I was set on new cylinders and he called me to tell me the barrels still were at the bottom end of new limits, not services limits but new. He said it's your money and you can waste it if you like but with a little honing and new exhaust valves and valve guides he wouldn't have to charge extra. I was sold as he actually talked me out of new cylinders because I kept the chts below 380 in flight and thought there was at least one more overhaul cycle in them.

Anyway if you want to talk pm me and I'll give you my cell and can fill you in on the rest. Neilpilot on here also has had a couple motors done by him.


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[aaronk25]

Or better yet take my J on trade as I've been wanting a turbo for cross country flights and I'll do the motor :)


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[nickmatic]

Just now, aaronk25 said:

Or better yet take my J on trade as I've been wanting a turbo for cross country flights and I'll do the motor


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Ha! The turbo is great. I've taken it over mountains cross country a few times, and I get over 200KTAS in the flight levels drinking 13gph.

Thanks for the pointer to Jewell. I'll call them in the morning

[aaronk25]

Ahh darn it. The J is great but I use the plane like you do.


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[jetdriven]

Which shop is doing the overhaul? The maintenance shop? I wouldn't do that. Al those engines overhauled in regular mechanic shops are nothing but trouble and after 500-800 hours, the cheaped-out reground lifters or cylinders go bad, requiring another overhaul. 

[Bob_Belville]

19 hours ago, nickmatic said:

I had a low oil pressure indication in my Mooney Encore the other day and made a precautionary landing in Myrtle Beach, SC. There was debris in the oil pressure regulator causing it to fail and the shop there looked at the oil filter and found non-ferrous metal, indicating it's time for an overhaul. I had been seeing the oil blacken quickly so I knew this was coming. The engine is at about 1330 hours. 

Shop there quoted me $35,000 for an overhaul including magnetos, harness, spark plugs, turbocharger and new cylinders. They plan to reuse the starter, exhaust system and wastegate controller (was just overhauled a couple months ago).

I've replaced a couple cylinders already and am pretty overwhelmed and beat up from spending money on this engine (welcome to airplane ownership, I know). Can anyone offer advice or a place to ship the engine for a better deal?

The shop there says the next step is to take the engine apart to see what's really going on. Long story short, I'm not super familiar with the overhaul process and want to feel comfortable that I'm not getting a bad deal or doing work I don't need to do.

Triad Aviation in Burlington NC is an engine (and prop shop) with a good reputation in this area. They will not be the cheapest but I would highly recommend you talk to Othman Rashed, "President & Engine Consultant". http://www.hhtriad.com/engine/

[flyboy0681]

All I can say is think twice about having them tear it down to get a closer look to figure out what the problem is. The reason is that once they have it in a million pieces on the bench, it will be very difficult for you to look around for another shop. Although I am quite happy with my recent overhaul, the shop quoted $1,500 to tear it down and another $2,000 to put it back together to the point where it could be used for a core trade-in. That money would have to be factored into the cost of a factory rebuilt or an overhaul by another shop. So the long and short of it is, if they tear it down you are pretty much committed to them for the overhaul IF you want to keep expenses to a minimum.

[N6758N]

+1 for Columbia!

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Triad Aviation in Burlington NC is an engine (and prop shop) with a good reputation in this area. They will not be the cheapest but I would highly recommend you talk to Othman Rashed, "President & Engine Consultant". http://www.hhtriad.com/engine/

+1

[nickmatic]

4 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

All I can say is think twice about having them tear it down to get a closer look to figure out what the problem is. The reason is that once they have it in a million pieces on the bench, it will be very difficult for you to look around for another shop. Although I am quite happy with my recent overhaul, the shop quoted $1,500 to tear it down and another $2,000 to put it back together to the point where it could be used for a core trade-in. That money would have to be factored into the cost of a factory rebuilt or an overhaul by another shop. So the long and short of it is, if they tear it down you are pretty much committed to them for the overhaul IF you want to keep expenses to a minimum.

Good tip, thanks!

[nickmatic]

4 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Triad Aviation in Burlington NC is an engine (and prop shop) with a good reputation in this area. They will not be the cheapest but I would highly recommend you talk to Othman Rashed, "President & Engine Consultant". http://www.hhtriad.com/engine/

They're actually the ones I was sent to by the local airport guys. I've been speaking with Othman and they're the ones with the initial quote I have. Good to see the thumbs up for them on here.