Long trip, old plane; shops en route?

[chrixxer]

If you were going to fly a 50 year old plane cross-country, and wanted to be prepared just in case, how would you compile a list of airports with A&Ps on field en route, and what contacts would you have in your iPhone for parts suppliers? Asking generally, but the specific route in question is, roughly: 

• KMOR (Morristown, TN)
• KSUS (St. Louis County, MO) (to see family, with a pop up to KPPQ)
• KWWR (Woodward, OK)
• KSAF (Santa Fe, NM)
• KTNP (Twentynine Palms, CA)
• KSMO (The Democratic People's Republic of Santa Monica, CA)

 

[MB65E]

Land only at or near airports serviced by Southwest Airlines. 

The rest won't matter, it gets easier the farther west you go wrt planning...

-Matt

[Godfather]

Who did the last annual? I normally have a trusted shop look over everything before large trips like Alaska etc. If a good shop has recently gone over the gear and engine I would not worry about it until you need it. In my experience you meet the most genuine individuals in a time of need and that's just part of the flying experience that keeps me coming back for more. 

[Jim Peace]

I do this route all the time in a now 53 year old Mooney....first order of business is to have open checkbook mx and replace stuff just because it is Tuesday.

Also I see you are going to go near Santa Fe.....Not sure how you are going to get to SMO from here but I highly suggest going the southerly route to El Paso and follow I-10 most of the way up through TUS etc....

The way you are planning it could take a long long while before you would see a helicopter if you went down....and hours if not a day before you would see the inside of a hospital.

Do you have a 406 ELT with lat long inputs from a gps as well as a PLB?

Remember these planes whether brand new or 50 years old are nothing but a flying lawn chair.........fly accordingly....

 

 

 

 

[Jim Peace]

2 hours ago, Godfather said:

In my experience you meet the most genuine individuals in a time of need and that's just part of the flying experience that keeps me coming back for more. 

I have been lucky with this because I spend a ton of $$ on preventative mx.  I have not broke yet in over 200 hours of crossing this country. But many friends have not been lucky....try over 5k in Henderson NV just to fix an alternator.....When you are AOG the mechanics know it and you will pay the price.......So much cheaper in the long run to keep your machine in top condition with overboard mx at home base.....

Edited May 6, 2017 by Jim Peace

[N201MKTurbo]

I have found that especially at smaller airports people will go out of their way to help you out if you break down. 

I have had people loan me tools and give me parts that they wouldn't let me pay for. Pilots and airplane owners will always pay it foreword. 

In 4000 hours of Mooney cross crountry flying, I have had to do field repairs about 4 times. The planes are very reliable.

[Skates97]

5 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have found that especially at smaller airports people will go out of their way to help you out if you break down. 

I have had people loan me tools and give me parts that they wouldn't let me pay for. Pilots and airplane owners will always pay it foreword. 

In 4000 hours of Mooney cross crountry flying, I have had to do field repairs about 4 times. The planes are very reliable.

I think I could second that. I have never broken down away from home, but I have had a few problems while there at the small little un-towered field where I have my hangar. I've met some great people who were more than willing to let me borrow a tool or more than one A&P who gave me a hand free of charge, or the IA willing to provide some instruction,  look over my work and sign off on my logbook for $20. I love the community at my airport,  kind of like if you were living in a small town where people just like to help out. 

[chrixxer]

3 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I have had a few problems while there at the small little un-towered field where I have my hangar. 

Where do you park? (Never mind, AJO. Derp.) BTW stumbled across your blog; it was like reliving my own training in 00U and 05J.  I was back at DuBois about when you were there, but by then working on my IR with Fawnia and then Brandin.

Edited May 7, 2017 by chrixxer

[Skates97]

Just now, chrixxer said:

Where do you park? BTW stumbled across your blog; it was like reliving my own training in 00U and 05J.  I was back at DuBois about when you were there, but by then working on my IR with Fawnia and then Brandin.

I'm just a short hop away at Corona, KAJO. Brandin was my CFI, I really enjoyed his teaching style, he's a good guy. 

[bradp]

There are very few things that will put you AOG needing a part.  Most likely things are probably light bulbs.  Followed by spark plugs.  Followed by vacuum pumps, alternator, electric fuel pumps, strobe power supply.  Some people on the board carry a couple of these items in the plane.  I perrsonally carry a spark plug, light bulbs.  Some I know have carried an alternator. Next time the prop is off consider zip tying an extra alternator belt on the engine flange.  A broken alternator belt will definitely put you AOG. 

 

For long cross county flights over areas of inhospitable terrain you need a survival pack more than any airplane appliance.  First aid, shelter, good knife /multi tool, thermal protection from heat and cold, fire starting ability,  water enough for multiple days, a food supply, and a PLB.   

[Yetti]

One of the tools sets from Wally world.  You can take the plane apart with standard tools.  

One of these https://www.harborfreight.com/vibration-free-link-belt-43771.html

A short breaker bar and https://www.harborfreight.com/78-in-oxygen-sensor-socket-69022.html

Realize the oxygen sensor socket won't work on tempest plugs

A front tube, a main tube

A tank quick drain valve

EPIRB

Phone and tablet with software to look up services and phone number

A credit card

Fly to the most options.  Soutwest Airline provides many options.

When we went to get my plane all three of us showed up with tool kits.   We were in a Baron so luckily weight was not an issue.

 

[Steve W]

EPIRB? I'd go with a PLB personally(and I do...)

[Yetti]

you say PLB I say EPIRB.   You say right I say starboard

[EricJ]

On 5/6/2017 at 1:17 PM, chrixxer said:

If you were going to fly a 50 year old plane cross-country, and wanted to be prepared just in case, how would you compile a list of airports with A&Ps on field en route, and what contacts would you have in your iPhone for parts suppliers? Asking generally, but the specific route in question is, roughly: 

• KMOR (Morristown, TN)
• KSUS (St. Louis County, MO) (to see family, with a pop up to KPPQ)
• KWWR (Woodward, OK)
• KSAF (Santa Fe, NM)
• KTNP (Twentynine Palms, CA)
• KSMO (The Democratic People's Republic of Santa Monica, CA)

 

There's an MSC in Chandler, AZ (KCHD), about halfway between KSAF and KTNP.   May not be important, but could be a resource for parts, at a minumum.

[cliffy]

Its a long way over sparse terrain with not much but steep mountains and lots of desert between SAF and TNP with numerous MOAs and restricted areas not to mention the Grand Canyon SFRA. You will need the GCN SFRA chart if you go near that place. 

Do Not do it at night- just telling you the truth. I live out there, KPGA, and at night even  with clear skies if there is no moon you will be IFR because you will have NO HORIZON to define. Its all BLACK out there at night. Not like back east with all the towns and roads. Out here you have to have daylight to have any chance of living through a forced landing. 

Strong westerly winds can play havoc with your planned route (and make the flight very uncomfortable) so don't plan to the Nth degree on range. There aren't that many airports out here to get gas. Been there done that. 

I carry an InReach so I can slide the window and push the button. I have it constantly beeping my location while flying. If I go down out here someone will know EXACTLY where I am. I fly my 53 yr old Mooney all over out here but I use common sense and I'm lucky with 55 yrs of experience to draw from. 

One last item- take a look at and relearn hot and high altitude flying. My field is 4300 MSL but in the summer our density gets to 8000'+.

Not trying to discourage you, I like flying out here but it is way different than east of the Rockies. If you decide to stop in Page, AZ give me a call. Lunch or dinner is on me! 

[N201MKTurbo]

11 minutes ago, cliffy said:

Its a long way over sparse terrain with not much but steep mountains and lots of desert between SAF and TNP with numerous MOAs and restricted areas not to mention the Grand Canyon SFRA. You will need the GCN SFRA chart if you go near that place. 

Do Not do it at night- just telling you the truth. I live out there, KPGA, and at night even  with clear skies if there is no moon you will be IFR because you will have NO HORIZON to define. Its all BLACK out there at night. Not like back east with all the towns and roads. Out here you have to have daylight to have any chance of living through a forced landing. 

Strong westerly winds can play havoc with your planned route (and make the flight very uncomfortable) so don't plan to the Nth degree on range. There aren't that many airports out here to get gas. Been there done that. 

I carry an InReach so I can slide the window and push the button. I have it constantly beeping my location while flying. If I go down out here someone will know EXACTLY where I am. I fly my 53 yr old Mooney all over out here but I use common sense and I'm lucky with 55 yrs of experience to draw from. 

One last item- take a look at and relearn hot and high altitude flying. My field is 4300 MSL but in the summer our density gets to 8000'+.

Not trying to discourage you, I like flying out here but it is way different than east of the Rockies. If you decide to stop in Page, AZ give me a call. Lunch or dinner is on me! 

Ok, Cliffy you are over dramatizing a bit.

I've bern flying these skies for almost 40 years. There are areas of rough terrain, but I never shied away from flying them at night. Some areas wouldn't be any better during the day, you would just be able to see the crash site better. As far as flight planning around the SUAs, that is just private pilot stuff, no big deal.

Oh, I get it. You are just  trying to keep the snow birds away so they don't figure out how awesome this place is and move here....

Edited May 8, 2017 by N201MKTurbo

[chrixxer]

I've flown a battered 13,000 hour Arrow to EKA and back same day (into the night; landed SMO about midnight) and flew DVT to CNO on a moonless night w/o a DG, IFR... But yeah, we're going to go more southerly now, KSUS KDUX KTUS KSMO, clinging to the 10 most of the way. 

[carusoam]

Another one for the files...

The mooney website has a list of all the MSCs across the country. Knowing where they are in each state you fly over could be helpful.

Some MSCs are better than others.  But, at least this way you have somebody that has some level of proven knowledge about your bird.

Thinking out loud...

Best regards,

-a-

[cliffy]

Well we do have all the tourists we want out here :-) I live where others come to vacation BUT I've flown out here all my life (55 years of flying, Wright Bros. Award) and night flying out here single engine is a gamble (yes it is my opinion after so long doing it). Granted (agree) the MOAs and Restricted are PP stuff but most numerous along the route that was mentioned. I'm a dinosaur, I don't know what Foreflight is as I've never used it. I barely know how to use my work iPhone but I did finish my career in an Airbus and I did stay at a Holiday Inn last week:-) :-) I do have Avare on a small phone that sits on a bracket in my left window.  

Seriously though, as Airport Director I see things every week that concern me. We just had (a couple weeks ago) a Father and 2 kids killed in a 172 that tried to make SLC from here at night. We had a Navajo that landed in the dirt 5 miles form the airport after trying to stretch it and running out of fuel.  We had a 207 land short of our runway recently because of the downdraft on final (high DA) and that killed 1 pax. 

Just my observations from experience

[Jim Peace]

9 hours ago, Steve W said:

I am not sure I feel comfortable looking at this.......

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, cliffy said:

Well we do have all the tourists we want out here :-) I live where others come to vacation BUT I've flown out here all my life (55 years of flying, Wright Bros. Award) and night flying out here single engine is a gamble (yes it is my opinion after so long doing it). Granted (agree) the MOAs and Restricted are PP stuff but most numerous along the route that was mentioned. I'm a dinosaur, I don't know what Foreflight is as I've never used it. I barely know how to use my work iPhone but I did finish my career in an Airbus and I did stay at a Holiday Inn last week:-) :-) I do have Avare on a small phone that sits on a bracket in my left window.  

Seriously though, as Airport Director I see things every week that concern me. We just had (a couple weeks ago) a Father and 2 kids killed in a 172 that tried to make SLC from here at night. We had a Navajo that landed in the dirt 5 miles form the airport after trying to stretch it and running out of fuel.  We had a 207 land short of our runway recently because of the downdraft on final (high DA) and that killed 1 pax. 

Just my observations from experience

How would a spare engine have helped any of those people?

[cliffy]

Not any but their references weren't related to another engine-

The 172 was directed at night flying around here

The Navajo was directed at stretching ones fuel as fuel stops are few and far between

The 207 was directed at the reference about density altitude and winds here

All were items I mentioned above

And I must reiterate that a night time engine out emergency landing out here will most likely not have a good outcome

We don't have corn and wheat fields to put it down in. We have rocks of various sizes and shapes.

 

[Oldguy]

Not sure if I would do it myself in my normal flying, but as an additional "maintenance insurance" Savvy Aviation has a managed maintenance service that, while not free, has been known to help out folks AOG in different areas across the country. Their connections and access to knowledgeable Mooney mechanics might be of value on a trip like this. Again, I might consider it like I would trip insurance on a vacation. FWIW.

[KLRDMD]

22 hours ago, chrixxer said:

I've flown a battered 13,000 hour Arrow to EKA and back same day (into the night; landed SMO about midnight) and flew DVT to CNO on a moonless night w/o a DG, IFR... But yeah, we're going to go more southerly now, KSUS KDUX KTUS KSMO, clinging to the 10 most of the way. 

When do you plan to be in Tucson (recommend stop at KAVQ).

[chrixxer]

3 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

When do you plan to be in Tucson (recommend stop at KAVQ).

Probably Tuesday the 23rd. Why AVQ?