New member considering a M20M Bravo

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, donkaye said:

I'd pass on that one.  Why in the world would they not have built it with the GFC 700 instead of the S-Tec.  I think it has been discussed in another thread, but upgrading to WAAS with the S-Tec is either problematic or VERY expensive or both.  Maybe someone who knows better can chime it.

All G1000 Bravos came with S-Tec 55 autopilots. Even early Acclaims had S-Tec 55's installed and then later were retro-fitted to the GFC700. The GFC700 wasn't introduced on Mooneys until 2007.

[Filippo]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Compared to a new plane price, the aggressive pricing would make me uneasy.  This Bravo is highly unused.  The unfortunate gear up and prop strike in a short period of time is probably not the fault of the plane.

a very strong PPI is probably the best course of action to make sure the plane has been put back together properly.  The PPI is to protect the owner's wallet.  The owner decides how strong and what should be looked at in the PPI.

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic or CFI.  I used DMax for the PPI on my plane..  

Best regards,

-a-

Absolutely, actually will be a full annual inspection and seller will be responsible for all airworthy squawks

[donkaye]

34 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

All G1000 Bravos came with S-Tec 55 autopilots. Even early Acclaims had S-Tec 55's installed and then later were retro-fitted to the GFC700. The GFC700 wasn't introduced on Mooneys until 2007.

Thanks for the information.  

[Filippo]

And finally, here you are my beatiful airplane.

like I promised a quick preview and more to follow

 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Filippo said:

Love the design on the tail--"FREEDOM"!! Ain't that the truth! 

[carusoam]

April 29 To June 6...

From considering a Bravo, to having one of your own...?

That is some good work!

The pair of wide screen TVs will make for some good inflight entertainment... 

Don't forget to post some inflight photos of your home area.

The Mooney world has some beautiful places.

Congrats, Filipo.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited June 7, 2017 by carusoam

[kmyfm20s]

Nice looking plane! Which airport will you be based at in San Diego?

[Filippo]

29 minutes ago, carusoam said:

April 29 To June 6...

From considering a Bravo, to having one of your own...?

That is some good work!

The pair of wide screen TVs will make for some good inflight entertainment... 

Don't forget to post some inflight photos of your home area.

The Mooney world has some beautiful places.

Congrats, Filipo.

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks, I did work hard...Will have to fly cross country from New York to San Diego, I guess a lot of opportunity for pictures...

[carusoam]

Fuel at 47N is usually the lowest cost in central NJ, if you're flying over my head...

If it came full up, this probably won't be helpful.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited June 7, 2017 by carusoam

[Filippo]

17 minutes ago, kmyfm20s said:

Nice looking plane! Which airport will you be based at in San Diego?

I looked everywhere and finally I decided to park it on my already reserved hangar in fallbrook, leaving in Encinitas was not the best choice , but Palomar was completely unaffordable and at Montgomery I didn't find anything , Ramona too far away, so I guess will become an expert of short field takeoff and landing .... will really like to meet the mooney community in San Diego...

[Filippo]

1 minute ago, carusoam said:

Fuel at 47N is usually the lowest cost in central NJ, if you're flying over my head...

If it came full up, this probably won't be helpful.

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks I'm actually departing from N87, Air-mods did my pre-buy and annual and they are fixing few items were broken plus doing the WAAS upgrade and ADS-B out upgrade so I guess another couple of week before enjoying the long cross-country...

 

[carusoam]

Great, give a Pirep on The airmods experience when you get a chance.

I like working with them. It's the place I go, when I have to go somewhere that really knows Mooneys...

Best regards,

-a-

[Filippo]

Just now, carusoam said:

Great, give a Pirep on The airmods experience when you get a chance.

I like working with them. It's the place I go, when I have to go somewhere that really knows Mooneys...

Best regards,

-a-

Sure, so far I have been very pleased. They have been honest and helpful. On pre-buy they went well behond scope and spent way more hours they planned to to reasearch any potential problem...

i will tell you when I will get there for delivery my final impression.

goodnight tomorrow early takeoff... going to sleep

 

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, Filippo said:

I looked everywhere and finally I decided to park it on my already reserved hangar in fallbrook, leaving in Encinitas was not the best choice , but Palomar was completely unaffordable and at Montgomery I didn't find anything , Ramona too far away, so I guess will become an expert of short field takeoff and landing .... will really like to meet the mooney community in San Diego...

LET ME EMPHASIZE!!! DO NOT AND I REPEAT DO NOT TAKE YOUR MOONEY BRAVO INTO FALLBROOK unless you are the best Mooney pilot in the country notwithstanding your credentials as an ATP and CFII    And to base it there is INSANE!!!!!  That runway is too short for the Bravo.  And expect an inexperienced person with little Mooney experience to crack it up on the first try.  You have to be perfect on the correct speed. Even if you are good, expect to flat spot your tires trying to stop.  That airport is an aircraft carrier and definitely not appropriate for the Bravo.  So, if you value your new airplane, pay the price and base it somewhere else or sell it and buy a C Model Mooney.  The C would work at that airport.  I personally have taken an Ovation in there a couple of times to demonstrate that it could be done, but I was light and alone.  I let the owner out and went around the pattern a couple of times.  AGAIN I HAVE NEARLY 9,000 MOONEY HOURS AND NEARLY 6,000 TEACHING HOURS AND THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD BASE MY AIRPLANE THERE (also a Bravo).

You have been forewarned.  If you base there, expect to either kill yourself and/or your family at some point with the Bravo or at best have a non fatal accident there.

[LANCECASPER]

58 minutes ago, Filippo said:

I looked everywhere and finally I decided to park it on my already reserved hangar in fallbrook, leaving in Encinitas was not the best choice , but Palomar was completely unaffordable and at Montgomery I didn't find anything , Ramona too far away, so I guess will become an expert of short field takeoff and landing .... will really like to meet the mooney community in San Diego...

http://airnav.com/airport/L18

I agree with Don, 2160 ft. is too short for a Bravo. Plus it says "NO SAFETY AREA AVBL DUE TO ABRUPT DROP-OFF EACH END OF RWY". You have zero margin for error there.

[M20S Driver]

Palo Alto is 2440 feet at sea level plus some overrun area.  I find it too short and painful on days at gross weight with light and variable or light tail winds.  I ABSOLUTELY will not land my Eagle at any airport shorter than Palo Alto..  Then again, I am just a chicken and only a Mooney Driver.

[donkaye]

5 minutes ago, M20S Driver said:

Palo Alto is 2440 feet at sea level plus some overrun area.  I find it too short and painful on days at gross weight with light and variable or light tail winds.  I ABSOLUTELY will not land my Eagle at any airport shorter than Palo Alto..  Then again, I am just a chicken and only a Mooney Driver.

For perspective, Palo Alto is a piece of cake compared to Fallbrook.  I take all my students into Palo Alto near the end of their transition training as a confidence builder.  Even Oceano at 2,325 is pretty easy with its usual onshore breeze.  But it is flat and there is a good lead in for the aim point.

[donkaye]

Regarding CFIs in the San Diego: there is Chuck McGill at 858-451-2742.  He's expensive but good.  I would be surprised if he would take you into Fallbrook in the Bravo. 

[kmyfm20s]

Did you try Oceanside? You should be able to get something at KMYF over time. If you decide to use Chuck for training as Don has mentioned he is very involved with the airport community and could probably help you find something. I would get a full plane Bruce's cover and put it at western flight at Palomar airport until something comes up. PM me if you want together or need help there are several of us Mooney pilot in San Diego.

[JohnB]

Well done Filipo!! Looks like a great plane you've got there!!! You should listen to Don though. He's got more Mooney and particularly Bravo experience than most of us combined. I would be very uncomfortable flying into an airport of 2160 feet, particularly if that's going to be your home airport? With a beautiful Bravo like you have, you need an airport to match. I chose Long Beach as my airport over much less expensive shorter runway airports like Fullerton or Corona because I NEVER have to worry about runway length to get home, and even if there's vicious crosswinds, gusts or shear, I can land fast and know I can stop in 10,000 feet! Also hugely helpful after major maintenance, I do a full length 10k feet initial takeoff, in case there ever is some maintenance issue, I can just land on the remaining runway rather than trees or houses if there's ever an issue. Not possible on a 2k foot runway. The ILS/ RNAV down to 200ft will also help get me home in all kinds of weather, to me, all of that is worth higher hangar fees.

John

[mike_elliott]

Filipo, might I suggest you take a Mooney Bravo experienced Specific CFI with you for your return flight to really instruct you in this plane's ops? Someone who really knows the G1000/Stec ops and is familiar with the WAAS upgrade. No, this isn't a pitch, I am booked thru mid July as it is. It would be a shame for you to spend a lot of good $$ on plane/prebuy/annual/ADS-B and WAAS upgrade and not spend anything on yourself to learn how to properly operate this fine machine.

[Danb]

Absolutely wise advice from our best Bravo pilots east and west coast, the Bravo is a lot of plane when loaded. A competent Bravo driver would be well worth the trip home. I had 20 years experience in my 2 Mooney 201's prior to the Bravo and still took three full days of Bravo and G-1000 training before I headed home with my new plane and I needed it.

[Filippo]

18 hours ago, donkaye said:

LET ME EMPHASIZE!!! DO NOT AND I REPEAT DO NOT TAKE YOUR MOONEY BRAVO INTO FALLBROOK unless you are the best Mooney pilot in the country notwithstanding your credentials as an ATP and CFII    And to base it there is INSANE!!!!!  That runway is too short for the Bravo.  And expect an inexperienced person with little Mooney experience to crack it up on the first try.  You have to be perfect on the correct speed. Even if you are good, expect to flat spot your tires trying to stop.  That airport is an aircraft carrier and definitely not appropriate for the Bravo.  So, if you value your new airplane, pay the price and base it somewhere else or sell it and buy a C Model Mooney.  The C would work at that airport.  I personally have taken an Ovation in there a couple of times to demonstrate that it could be done, but I was light and alone.  I let the owner out and went around the pattern a couple of times.  AGAIN I HAVE NEARLY 9,000 MOONEY HOURS AND NEARLY 6,000 TEACHING HOURS AND THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD BASE MY AIRPLANE THERE (also a Bravo).

You have been forewarned.  If you base there, expect to either kill yourself and/or your family at some point with the Bravo or at best have a non fatal accident there.

You did emphasize it, you almost scared me .

i got your point and you are completely right is not for everyone and I have never thought about going there without getting more practice on the plane.

i have seen, in my career ,   places to land way worst then Fallbrook, but for sure Fallbrook  doesn't leave you with many options, if you make a mistake.

with that in mind and again my test pilot ghost inside me, I did a lot of testing in longer runway , landing with power in and speed brakes extended at 70 knots and the airplane land very smoothly and if you raise the flaps after touchdown increasing the weight on wheels you barely have to use brakes and you stop in about 1000 ft. I tried at different landing weights from 3200 going down.

I have learned the technique mainly with the F-104 Starfighter where minimum power setting for landing was 93% at 190 KTS on final and full flaps, 220 KTS with flaps T/O and 240 KTS with no flaps. 1 knots below your approach speed, you were dead, 5 knots above it, you were dead, going out at the end of the runway. Power below 93% you were a rock falling from the sky with no lift generated.

this is not to say I'm superman or the best pilot in the entire world, just someone that before doing anything study and test everything using performance chart, APG and so on.

if you look at performance landing roll on the mooney at heavy weight is about 1500 ft... without considering, runway slope, wind, RCR and so on. Obviously you need to be on speed and touch down close to the runway threshold . Is it duable? Yes it is. is it smart, no is not, one problem and you maybe in trouble. 

I landed in fallbrook with : Cessna 152-172-182, Siae Marchetti SF-260, Piper arrow IV, Cessna T310Q, Bonanza A-36 , G-36 and V-35 B, again not easy or smart but very duable.

As soon as I will come to San Diego I will land at Palomar and with time I will decide if is it safe enough for me or not...

i did appreciate very much your concerns and for someone with so many hours on Mooney I take that as a very important warning.... will keep you posted...

thanks

Filippo

[Filippo]

18 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

http://airnav.com/airport/L18

I agree with Don, 2160 ft. is too short for a Bravo. Plus it says "NO SAFETY AREA AVBL DUE TO ABRUPT DROP-OFF EACH END OF RWY". You have zero margin for error there.

If you go past the runway , you go pick up flowers on all fields at the end of the runway

 

[Filippo]

17 hours ago, JohnB said:

Well done Filipo!! Looks like a great plane you've got there!!! You should listen to Don though. He's got more Mooney and particularly Bravo experience than most of us combined. I would be very uncomfortable flying into an airport of 2160 feet, particularly if that's going to be your home airport? With a beautiful Bravo like you have, you need an airport to match. I chose Long Beach as my airport over much less expensive shorter runway airports like Fullerton or Corona because I NEVER have to worry about runway length to get home, and even if there's vicious crosswinds, gusts or shear, I can land fast and know I can stop in 10,000 feet! Also hugely helpful after major maintenance, I do a full length 10k feet initial takeoff, in case there ever is some maintenance issue, I can just land on the remaining runway rather than trees or houses if there's ever an issue. Not possible on a 2k foot runway. The ILS/ RNAV down to 200ft will also help get me home in all kinds of weather, to me, all of that is worth higher hangar fees.

John

I would love to have a 10000 ft runway here to do a couple of takeoff and landing on the same departure .....we need to get together, I will PM you.