Advice on this particular Bravo for sale

[BigAirHarper]

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/17959369/1989-mooney-m20m-bravo

Really like the looks of this Bravo. I've been doing research on the Bravo platform and have picked the brains of the Mooney owners I know but would love some feedback from some Bravo owners themselves. Just let me know your thoughts on this plane and things to keep a close eye out for. Thanks for any input!

[carusoam]

Price is kinda low for all the hardware and updates that it has...

I must have missed something.  I was looking for the usual NDH logo...

Don't forget PPIs are a safety net.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited April 6, 2017 by carusoam

[BigAirHarper]

Yea that's what I was thinking too. "Cosmetic" hail damage on a couple of the wings. I've seen it in pictures it does look minor. 

[Bravoman]

I agree, as long as all major ADs, including crank ( if applicable) are done and plane has no unusual history looks like a pretty reasonable price.

[Awful_Charlie]

It looks like an early one - check for the MTOW conversion (or what it will cost to get it installed) - LRT without that will be limiting

Check the engine does have the oil cooled head mod (I would expect so, but expensive to add if not there)

Might be well worth getting an IPC/MM to see what has changed in the intervening years and if there is anything there that you particularly dislike.

Not sure what the transponder offers - you may need to upgrade for Mode S/ADSB (or accept a ceiling cap maybe?)

 

[BigAirHarper]

Thanks for the feedback! So I'm looking at logs, unfortunately the digital copies I have are a little fuzzy, but I do see the entry concerning MTOW looks like SB M20-248, something like that.  So that should be covered

8 hours ago, Bravoman said:

I agree, as long as all major ADs, including crank ( if applicable) are done and plane has no unusual history looks like a pretty reasonable price.

Looking for info on the crank AD, may just ask broker.

 

42 minutes ago, Awful_Charlie said:

It looks like an early one - check for the MTOW conversion (or what it will cost to get it installed) - LRT without that will be limiting

Check the engine does have the oil cooled head mod (I would expect so, but expensive to add if not there)

Might be well worth getting an IPC/MM to see what has changed in the intervening years and if there is anything there that you particularly dislike.

Not sure what the transponder offers - you may need to upgrade for Mode S/ADSB (or accept a ceiling cap maybe?)

 

LRT?

IPC/MM?

Yea transponder I'm not too worried about b/c soon it will have to be upgraded anyway for ADS-B compliance.

Edited April 6, 2017 by BigAirHarper

[AndyFromCB]

Few more things on this vintage:

-check that oxygen bottle and regulator are not expired

-test the speed brakes in flight, make sure they extend and retract properly at all speeds

-when was the last time the propeller has been looked at

-time gear biscuits have been in service

-check, then double check and then triple check the engine mount for chafes over the 10% limit

-make sure the turbo v band clamp has not been loosen/tightened more than allowed

-tanks

-test flight the autopilot in all modes

[KSMooniac]

Looks like a lot of value to me, although I've never flown an M. I don't know if you're a LOP operator or not, but if so, you might ask if that one can run LOP well. Some can, some can't. It would be a deal-breaker for me.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

[Danb]

Cost being low double check for any damage, test fly to see how you make out with the higher panel, I had a hard time seeing over it. If the  prebuy turns out fine looks like a buy. Biscuits are a 5-6 year life on the long body's, have the turbo checked with a fine tooth.

[AndyFromCB]

One more pricy item I forgot to mention in my list.

-Exhaust to turbo transition, make sure it's not cracked, check for pinholes and general wall wear. I would very much recommend checking the entire system for leaks with smoke. 

[rpcc]

Check Don Kay's posts - he as an excellent overview of what to look for in the earlier models - down to the serial number in some cases.

[Awful_Charlie]

16 hours ago, BigAirHarper said:

Thanks for the feedback! So I'm looking at logs, unfortunately the digital copies I have are a little fuzzy, but I do see the entry concerning MTOW looks like SB M20-248, something like that.  So that should be covered

Looking for info on the crank AD, may just ask broker.

 

LRT?

IPC/MM?

Yea transponder I'm not too worried about b/c soon it will have to be upgraded anyway for ADS-B compliance.

LRT = Long Range Tanks - not a lot of point in having the ability to load 780lbs of fuel if you only have 800lbs left between MTOW and basic empty weight (BEW )

IPC=Illustrated Parts Catalog - has the parts for each serial number, so you can work out the differences, MM=Maintenance Manual - similarly you can see if there are procedures required on your proposed s/n that you might want to address

A MSC can get you the manuals on a USB  stick for less than the price of a tank of fuel, and a wise investment I would suggest

[Danb]

Btw, the long range tanks are one the of the best options I did on the plane. I only go over 100 gal when needed otherwise, I generally keep between 60-90 gal on board. 1200 nm without stopping at 200 knots are very hard to beat.

[JohnB]

That is a too good to be true price for a Bravo with those features. My biggest thing I would be concerned about is that if the airplane lives in Florida,  corrosion can really be devastating on an airframe to make it nearly un repairable and very hard on the engine. I remember seeing some really well priced airplanes in FL, way below market, and was advised to  steer clear of inexpensive, price too good to be true Florida airplanes because of the corrosion aspect possibility. The paint looks great and new this year (paint over corroded area?) but I would be concerned if this airplane was kept outside of a hangar in Florida for any long period, or I hear even in a hangar close to the water can be hard.

TBO on our Bravo's is 2,000. This one was overhauled at 1,655 hours. (2,361 - 706). Why? prop strike @ 1655?  Internal corrosion? There's no accident or incident report ever filed by the NTSB by the ntsb website (I checked for you), so it may be accident free, but I would be concerned about something not being disclosed in the ad.

If this really has no corrosion issues, and there's a good reason for an early overhaul, this would be a very good price. But be wary!!! You may not want to buy someones major problem without knowing what it is!

 

[JohnB]

35 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

How do you feel about airplanes that live in Long BEACH?

 

That's true! One of the reasons i have a hangar! It's less humid here, but still a factor!

[mike_elliott]

7 hours ago, JohnB said:

That is a too good to be true price for a Bravo with those features. My biggest thing I would be concerned about is that if the airplane lives in Florida,  corrosion can really be devastating on an airframe to make it nearly un repairable and very hard on the engine. I remember seeing some really well priced airplanes in FL, way below market, and was advised to  steer clear of inexpensive, price too good to be true Florida airplanes because of the corrosion aspect possibility. The paint looks great and new this year (paint over corroded area?) but I would be concerned if this airplane was kept outside of a hangar in Florida for any long period, or I hear even in a hangar close to the water can be hard.

TBO on our Bravo's is 2,000. This one was overhauled at 1,655 hours. (2,361 - 706). Why? prop strike @ 1655?  Internal corrosion? There's no accident or incident report ever filed by the NTSB by the ntsb website (I checked for you), so it may be accident free, but I would be concerned about something not being disclosed in the ad.

If this really has no corrosion issues, and there's a good reason for an early overhaul, this would be a very good price. But be wary!!! You may not want to buy someones major problem without knowing what it is!

 

 

7 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I couldn't agree with you more about the importance of hangarage.  The most corroded plane I have ever owned spent 30 years tied down at Torrance. 

Florida is not what makes for a corroded plane. Owners who don't take care of planes make for corroded planes. I  would be very suspicious of any plane that sat outside in arid Phoenix for 5 or six years (or CA or MN or anywhere)

[XXX]

The ad states that it has been maintained by Bill Turley. Bill is a top notch mechanic with a great reputation. If it were me looking, I would contact Bill and ask him about the plane and the owner. 

[JohnB]

6 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

 

Florida is not what makes for a corroded plane. Owners who don't take care of planes make for corroded planes. I  would be very suspicious of any plane that sat outside in arid Phoenix for 5 or six years (or CA or MN or anywhere)

Here here! I'm not picking on FL, as I'm sure there's some great airplanes and I used to live there! Sometimes salt water corrosion can be harder on our planes and engines particularly if left outside. (I once bought a relatively new car for $300 that was parked in a beach city in CA, engine completely corroded, minor structural corrosion, new engine overhaul fixed the engine). I might be skeptical, but If I was considering a buy, I would like to know where the airplane lived and was this airplane left outside or in a hangar, and what was the reason for the early overhaul? If all is good, that's a great price!

 

[cafflyer]

I looked at this airplane about a month ago. The hail damage is all over the airframe and in my opinion significant. If one were to buy this aircraft the hail damage would need to be factored in to the buy price because it will get factored into the sell price by the next buyer. To repair the damage properly I'm estimating the cost at 40 to 50k. I'm guessing the current owner got some kind of insurance settlement and elected not to fix the aircraft.

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, cafflyer said:

I looked at this airplane about a month ago. The hail damage is all over the airframe and in my opinion significant. If one were to buy this aircraft the hail damage would need to be factored in to the buy price because it will get factored into the sell price by the next buyer. To repair the damage properly I'm estimating the cost at 40 to 50k. I'm guessing the current owner got some kind of insurance settlement and elected not to fix the aircraft.

At this asking price, he might be factoring the hail damage in already.

[mike_elliott]

4 hours ago, JohnB said:

Here here! I'm not picking on FL, as I'm sure there's some great airplanes and I used to live there! Sometimes salt water corrosion can be harder on our planes and engines particularly if left outside. (I once bought a relatively new car for $300 that was parked in a beach city in CA, engine completely corroded, minor structural corrosion, new engine overhaul fixed the engine). I might be skeptical, but If I was considering a buy, I would like to know where the airplane lived and was this airplane left outside or in a hangar, and what was the reason for the early overhaul? If all is good, that's a great price!

 

Ok, I thought when you said

18 hours ago, JohnB said:

My biggest thing I would be concerned about is that if the airplane lives in Florida,  corrosion can really be devastating on an airframe to make it nearly un repairable and very hard on the engine.

that you might be saying planes that live in Fl would be your biggest concern, thus implying Florida based planes were a bigger risk. I have fortunate enough to have flown and seen Mooney's from all over the country, and found the biggest risk to their health I have observed is a non pro active owner in any state. Having lived in the Midwest for 60 years of my life, I noticed the planes kept in FL actually are superior because of the diligence of the owners as a group, but I agree, the climate here will kill a plane faster than in MN if not mitigated with care. Especially hard on them is sun exposure. The Sun will kill tanks, bladders, paint, interiors, tires, Plexiglas etc. Flying thru marine layers will give them a nice dosage of corrosion catalyst moisture, and that is a way of life in the Bay area.

[Greg_D]

I'd still like to know what happened with the deal on this plane:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/93-MOONEY-TLS-BRAVO-1696-TT-CHEAP-DEAL-OF-THE-CENTURY-/122432083837?hash=item1c8185577d:g:UjMAAOSw2xRYf~QY&vxp=mtr

Someone here reported that they had purchased it, but it is listed for sale again by the same seller.  Some damage history, but it looks better equipped than the one discussed here, and at a better price!

[Shadrach]

On 4/9/2017 at 7:35 PM, mike_elliott said:

Ok, I thought when you said

that you might be saying planes that live in Fl would be your biggest concern, thus implying Florida based planes were a bigger risk.

My biggest concern with buying a plane from FL is that the state is full of thieves, miscreants and scoundrels!!!

[rbridges]

17 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

My biggest concern with buying a plane from FL is that the state is full of thieves, miscreants and scoundrels!!!

don't get me started on the CFIIs in Florida!  

[Zibolsk1]

Bigairharper.  I have a 1992 Mooney Bravo for sale. It us real nice with some upgraded equipment. It is in for annual inspection as we speak.  All compressions in upper 70's. 2010TT and about 750 since Bravo conversion. Looks and flys nice. Turbo and most accessories over hauled in the past 100 hours. Aspen 1000 pro, 530W . Auto pilot had complete over haul also at last annual  my phone number is 507-298-0919. Call me if you want to discuss more details.  Kraig