ADS-B Resource Thread

[Jerry 5TJ]

ADS-B Performance Test

A reminder that the FAA provides a free test of your installed ADS-B OUT  performance.  

FAA ADS-B Performance Check

I went through a (long diatribe deleted here) software upgrade to 6.50 & used the FAA site to make sure it all still works.  

[Marauder]

I find it “interesting” that over 10% of the installations are incorrect. It is not that hard to hook up a box and configure it.  Apparently it is hard for some minority of installers.   
As my local avionics shop manager said, “even the bad shops are busy now.”
Next fall isn’t going to be pretty on the ADS-B scene.  After all, to be compliant as of 1/1/2020 you not only must have equipment installed, it has to work properly.  

I wonder how many of those are in the experimental category.


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[Baker Avionics]

4 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

I find it “interesting” that over 10% of the installations are incorrect. It is not that hard to hook up a box and configure it.  Apparently it is hard for some minority of installers.   

As my local avionics shop manager said, “even the bad shops are busy now.”

Next fall isn’t going to be pretty on the ADS-B scene.  After all, to be compliant as of 1/1/2020 you not only must have equipment installed, it has to work properly.  

Please don't throw stones if you are not in that field.  Remember, there are many many owners and "My A&P" jobs that get done as well because, "It is so easy".  I agree with your local shop that even the crappy shops are busy and there ARE those that do not know what they are doing, for sure, just don't group the good ones by belittling what we do and thinking "It is easy to hook up a box and configure it".  Everyone has there profession and skill level and though I am on the upper echelon of mine, as I have been told, I just know that a lot of folks are trying their best and we ALL need to understand that there is still a human factor involved and I will do everyone a favor by not telling them how easy it is to fly a plane because there are bad ones out there.  There are some that are harder than you may think, but there are some that are super simple.  I agree.  Not trying to ruffle feathers, just please understand that if you can't fit into my shoes, please don't tell me how to walk in them and I will do the same.  Please try not to take offense, just stating that there are issues that come up, some are bad units or auxiliary units that go bad, it is what it is and there are crappy shops as well.  

 

Forgive my long rant and if I offended, please forgive, it is not my intention.

[Jerry 5TJ]

1 minute ago, The Avionics Specialists said:

Please don't throw stones if you are not in that field.  Remember, there are many many owners and "My A&P" jobs that get done as well because, "It is so easy".  I agree with your local shop that even the crappy shops are busy and there ARE those that do not know what they are doing, for sure, just don't group the good ones by belittling what we do and thinking "It is easy to hook up a box and configure it".  Everyone has there profession and skill level and though I am on the upper echelon of mine, as I have been told, I just know that a lot of folks are trying their best and we ALL need to understand that there is still a human factor involved and I will do everyone a favor by not telling them how easy it is to fly a plane because there are bad ones out there.  There are some that are harder than you may think, but there are some that are super simple.  I agree.  Not trying to ruffle feathers, just please understand that if you can't fit into my shoes, please don't tell me how to walk in them and I will do the same.  Please try not to take offense, just stating that there are issues that come up, some are bad units or auxiliary units that go bad, it is what it is and there are crappy shops as well.  

 

Forgive my long rant and if I offended, please forgive, it is not my intention.

No stones thrown, and I am in the field.

 

[Baker Avionics]

Just now, Jerry 5TJ said:

No stones thrown, and I am in the field.

 

I understand, also, are those "10%" in GA or "Heavy Iron?  Please forgive me if I sounded harsh, I am just trying to make a point because the other day, we went through 3 different units before all was given a green light.  It isn't all on the shops, but a lot is, I agree.  Thank you for the information Jerry

[Marauder]

Please don't throw stones if you are not in that field.  Remember, there are many many owners and "My A&P" jobs that get done as well because, "It is so easy".  I agree with your local shop that even the crappy shops are busy and there ARE those that do not know what they are doing, for sure, just don't group the good ones by belittling what we do and thinking "It is easy to hook up a box and configure it".  Everyone has there profession and skill level and though I am on the upper echelon of mine, as I have been told, I just know that a lot of folks are trying their best and we ALL need to understand that there is still a human factor involved and I will do everyone a favor by not telling them how easy it is to fly a plane because there are bad ones out there.  There are some that are harder than you may think, but there are some that are super simple.  I agree.  Not trying to ruffle feathers, just please understand that if you can't fit into my shoes, please don't tell me how to walk in them and I will do the same.  Please try not to take offense, just stating that there are issues that come up, some are bad units or auxiliary units that go bad, it is what it is and there are crappy shops as well.  
 
Forgive my long rant and if I offended, please forgive, it is not my intention.

You should spend some time with Jerry. He is being very kind when he said was in the field.

So when we opening up the shop Jerry? Between your brains and my brawn, not only will they be installed correctly, we’ll get paid.

[Baker Avionics]

That is understandable and I hope I was clear that I am not trying to belittle or put him down.  He seems very very knowledgeable and passionate for the industry, which is amazing!  I hope to chat more with him in the future. He seems very respectful and respectable as well.  Just wanting to clarify what he was saying and to get more insight.  I respect everyone here and in the industry because we are all in this together.  

[Mooneymite]

From uAvionix email:   STC Data Submitted to FAA   Its been just over 2 months since we announcedskyBeacon received its 5 TSOs. At the time, we thought the STC was just a couple of weeks away...   We keep on learning. Our initial STC flight turned up an issue we hadn't previously discovered. It's resolved now, but it resulted in a TSO minor modification, subsequent test flights, and finally another STC flight. Despite rumors or speculation to the contrary, the delay has been of our own making, and has nothing to do with our dispute with a competitor. The data package has been accepted by the FAA and we are now awaiting signatures.   Check out the STC flight path on the right.   During that two month period, we've received thousands of calls, emails, and social media posted questions asking for status. Also during that period, FAA relaunched its $500 rebate program - which just ratcheted up the intensity of the inquiries.   Thank you for your patience. We are confident it will be worth the wait. The wait is nearly over.   We will begin to ship the TSO/STC product to our customers and trusted resellers as soon as we receive the final signatures from the FAA by the end of November. Go reserve your $500 rebate slot with confidence and order your skyBeacon today!

[Jerry 5TJ]

Half of US GA Fleet will fail to make ADS-B deadline 

Predicts AIN Online:

% Estimates

[bob865]

Recently there was an ATC seminar here in Greenville where we had controllers from our local airport towers, local Class C approach control, and the Charlotte class B there so we can all talk and ask questions of ATC.  I was surprised to hear that they currently have no way to see any ADS-B infomraiton on their screens, even the Bravo guys.  We asked about when they would get this capabiity, and they said there had been no mention of it coming or dates given on when they would get ADS-B target info for their use.

I was a bit disappointed to hear that.  I know all of this is big upgrades and takes a lot of time and money.  And for ATC to use it, the fleet has to use it first so I get that there would be a lag behind 2020 before they get it.  But I would have expected the dates to be closer behind our 2020 mandate than, "we haven't even heard about it."

[Marauder]

Half of US GA Fleet will fail to make ADS-B deadline 
Predicts AIN Online:
% Estimates

Time to open that “ADS-B R US” shop Jerry.

I suspect that 22% of the GA fleet is probably half of those that need to or want to. There are a number of Hanks out there who are saying “I don’t need no stink in’ ADS-B”.


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[wings_level]

So I am starting to narrow it down.  Apparently the gdl 82 is rather high labor cost.  I was quoted by two different shops at around $5k part and labor.  Same shops quoted a 345 at around $8.5k.  So I think I will go with a 345.  This biggest heartburn is I have an old kln89b gps, so no waas.  Upgrading to ads b requires a waas antenna.  So I have to put another hole in the top of my plane for the antenna.  Unless I go ahead and upgrade the gps at the same time.  Then I can use the space where my 89b antenna is.  But gosh that would be about $20k for a ‘66 C model.  Good grief!!

Edited December 8, 2018 by wings_level

[Marauder]

So I am starting to narrow it down.  Apparently the gdl 82 is rather high labor cost.  I was quoted by two different shops at around $5k part and labor.  Same shops quoted a 345 at around $8.5k.  So I think I will go with a 345.  This biggest heartburn is I have an old kln89b gps, so no waas.  Upgrading to ads b requires a waas antenna.  So I have to put another hole in the top of my plane for the antenna.  Unless I go ahead and upgrade the gps at the same time.  Then I can use the space where my 89b antenna is.  But gosh that would be about $20k for a ‘66 C model.  Good grief!!

I hope the 345 they are installing has the built in GPS. I heard those selling for $8500 installed. The non-GPS version around here go for $6500 installed.


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[wings_level]

Yes.  The 345 they quoted was with gps.  My biggest heartburn is having to put another hole in the airplane for the antenna since I don’t have a waas gps already.

[Marauder]

Yes.  The 345 they quoted was with gps.  My biggest heartburn is having to put another hole in the airplane for the antenna since I don’t have a waas gps already.

In my installation, the panel mounted GPS shares the same antennae as the transponder’s GPS.


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[Prior owner]

Very curious as to why there has been almost no expressed interest here in the skybeacon  navlight solution? It seems like such a simple and inexpensive way to deal with the requirement. 

[carusoam]

19 minutes ago, PilotCoyote said:

Very curious as to why there has been almost no expressed interest here in the skybeacon  navlight solution? It seems like such a simple and inexpensive way to deal with the requirement. 

There is, just hiding in another thread...

-a-

[bob865]

13 minutes ago, carusoam said:

There is, just hiding in another thread...

-a-

Here ya go!!

 

[Prior owner]

Thanks guys!

[Marauder]

Here’s the report from my first flight following the install of the uAvionix Skybeacon. The report appears to indicate a successfully installed and functioning UAT.
I still need to get above 10k on the next flight to get my incentive code, but so far so good.
 
PAPR_20190118_A8426B_68769850.pdf

Not sure where you flew on your test flight. I never went above 10k on mine and it passed. I took one of my recent flights and submitted it to see if it would pass. It did. I was at 8500’ on that flight. It might be that you are not flying in what they define as their “rules airspace”.


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[PaulM]

13 hours ago, nosky2high said:

PAPR_20190118_A8426B_68769850.pdf

You need to spend 30 mins in rule airspace... That can be above 10K, or within the mode c veil or above/in a class C, and they mean "IN" that 10nm ring.   Your cross country only had 5mins of rule airspace, transiting the Jackson class C.    Also remember that officially they want some maneuvering in the rule airspace as well... 360's, climbs descents etc.    I would spend 15-20 above/in that class C on the next flight, and then finish it off with a stretch above 10K.. but if the clouds don't allow that, just do maneuvers under the class C shelf, or a couple of low approaches etc.. burn up the 30 mins. 

I spent 30+ mins doing IFR approaches at a Class C, and since the vectoring outside of the FAF was beyond 10NM it didn't all qualify.   They did stitch together another flight within a mode c veil the next day for a total of over 30mins, so I didn't have to do another right away. 

Marauder,  Your flights qualify since they transit within the PHL mode C veil. 

[Marauder]

Marauder,  Your flights qualify since they transit within the PHL mode C veil. 

That’s the weird part. The flight I submitted I doubt I was in the Mode C veil for 30 minutes. I also wasn’t in the Washington 60nm arc either.





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[Robert C.]

I have a vague recollection that I read somewhere (cannot find it now) that the $500 rebate needs to be reported as taxable income somewhere. Has anyone seen any evidence of that? I can't find anything about it on the FAA website and some googling didn't throw up any leads either.

Thanks in advance.

Robert

[jaylw314]

7 minutes ago, Robert C. said:

I have a vague recollection that I read somewhere (cannot find it now) that the $500 rebate needs to be reported as taxable income somewhere. Has anyone seen any evidence of that? I can't find anything about it on the FAA website and some googling didn't throw up any leads either.

Thanks in advance.

Robert

I think the redid the website after the first go around, and didn't put that back in the FAQ.  Here's a link to an old AOPA article

[carusoam]

See if @Danb has any insight on taxable status of the ADSB refund...

A refund, typically means it was your money coming back to you... It was once income you already paid taxes on, unless you already claimed it as some kind of work expense?

It is a technical complexity... you paid one guy with after tax dollars... the government sent you money back from a different stack...  so it isn’t technically a refund now, is it?

The whole idea was the government incentive to make the program viable... every time they clamp down on the program, people stop being incentivized... the government doesn’t get what they were initially after...

To the end user, buyer, and tax payer...   Double taxation never goes over very well... 

Dan has good insight on tax issues...

Best regards,

-a-