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ADS-B Resource Thread


Marauder

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25 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 


I hope you'll be thrilled with the Lynx, I am. What airplane are you putting it in? Mine is over on the right, just not quite enough room to move to center :/

Got the 9000+ and saved some money and useful load trading in the old skywatch box in the tail rack...

8a3bfb134ff4d412a4a30e1511918b03.jpg


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I got an idea with your money. Pull the King radio and put in a Garmin 255. You'll have plenty of space to move it over to the center stack. I'm headed the L-3 9000+ route as well. Mine has been purchased, just waiting for the shop's slot. Going to be moving stuff around as well.

N6892V Panel Design.jpg

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I thought about that but it was an expensive way to do it... especially since the king radio is strong.

My next move may well be an Avedyne 540/550. Well, if the looming overhaul and new prop with the 310hp STC doesn't completely bleed me dry...

Your panel will be something else!

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M,

I like the emergency extension button...

Most other Mooney guys I know have an E-retract button there.  Their E-extend is a manual device closer to the floor.

This isn't the result of some large distraction or failure to use a check list is it?

Or are you really getting an electric E-extender?

This is a long way to say I think I may have spotted something unusual in the drawing...! :)

In my haste to brag, I probably got something incorrect.

Best regards,

-a-

 

Edited by carusoam
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M,
I like the emergency extension button...
Most other Mooney guys I know have an E-retract button there.  Their E-extend is a manual device closer to the floor.
This isn't the result of some large distraction or failure to use a check list is it?
Or are you really getting an electric E-extender?
This is a long way to say I think I may have spotted something unusual in the drawing...! 
In my haste to brag, I probably got something incorrect.
Best regards,
-a-
 


It was a test. And Anthony you are the only one who noticed. It's the retraction button that I will be moving over from the right side.

Just too lazy to correct the photo. Well done!


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8 hours ago, jamesm said:

 

Chupacabra, where you on  a IFR  flight plan or have to get Flight following?   was this for the ADS-B Rebate ?

 

Thanks,

James

James, I was leaving the avionics shop after they reconfigured the unit (I had the Lynx 9000 installed as well). The first try for my validation didn't take and the shop needed to make some adjustments. Since I was already in C airspace and under the class B shelf, I asked for VFR flight following and asked to remain within the 30 mile ring for 30 minutes. The controller told me to do whatever I needed and let him know when I was resuming my flight back to Ocala. Upon landing, I logged into the rebate site, plugged my info in and got the four "greens" that confirmed  my validation.  I've noticed all my VFR flight following trips show up on Flight Aware now. Even some 1200 flights are showing up. 

I'm pleased with the Lynx and am amazed at the amount of traffic that is out there. I have it feeding my iPad on ForeFlight. I hope you enjoy it and find it a great tool as well.

Steve

 

IMG_0096.JPG

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10 hours ago, jamesm said:

Thanks for your response Robert.

Robert  when you say "normal  transponder code" doing you mean 1200 ? or do I need to

I guess I am having a disconnect on this.

How does  the ADS-B system know that hey there is  a Mooney  guy   with  a newly installed ADS-B   squawking  1200  who is flying  maneuvers above 10,0000  for  more than 30 minutes  oh by  the way  he is  doing this for the ADS-B verification/validation flight,  As appose to some other Mooney Gal/Guy  who is flying and squawking  VFR above 10,000 ft in the same airspace.

You don't need a special code, squawking 1200 and not not talking to anybody worked just fine for my validation flight.

The FAA knows it's you because your N# is included in your ADS-B transmission.  That's how you get your $500 check.

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Does the ADS-B transmission identify the manufacturer and/or serial number of the actual transmitter too? How would anyone know if an aircraft owner had a GTX345 vs Appereo vs FreeFlight Ranger vs DIY kit?

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Yeah but what if the owner doesn't care about the rebate? A $500 rebate from a $5000 install bill versus a $750 EAB model.

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The units are transmitting information about themselves to the FAA. In 2015, the FAA began taking steps to stop the use of portable ADS-B "out" equipment. In 2016, they began blocking ground based client responses to these devices. The TSO equipment defined in the rebate is the same as they expect to be installed in the plane with or without the rebate.

From the rebate program:

2eb687df0445bcb78f3c35c9eb87a80e.jpg

FAA ADS-B site:

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/faq/#q8

From ForeFlight:

https://support.foreflight.com/hc/en-us/articles/205428857-Can-I-use-a-portable-ADS-B-Out-system-in-my-aircraft-

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For my validation flight I briefed my CFII of what I'd like to do that day and I used the IPC for ADS'b validation in a local class "C" airspace. We did two different RNAV/GPS approaches then requested the known Intersection overflight on N/S and E/W courses followed by the two 720 degree turns (Right and Left). We had already decided which intersection we would request from ATC for the intersection and turn portions of the test before takeoff so as not to interfere with their traffic flow. Flew back to our TRSA and finished up the IPC then afterwards submitted the flight for approval. Three weeks later received the check.

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9 hours ago, Andy95W said:

When you sign up for the rebate, you have to tell them which model of ADS-B transmitter you are installing.

True, but you do not have to install that same equipment if you want. For example when I signed up for the rebate I selected GDL-88 as the equipment I was going to install, long story short, I ended up installing a GTX330ES. Validation flight was a success and I am still getting a check. I think there is a misnomer out there that you have to go buy a brand new solution and have an avionics shop put it in, not true. I purchased my equipment used from a friend and installed it myself (IA).

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True, but you do not have to install that same equipment if you want. For example when I signed up for the rebate I selected GDL-88 as the equipment I was going to install, long story short, I ended up installing a GTX330ES. Validation flight was a success and I am still getting a check. I think there is a misnomer out there that you have to go buy a brand new solution and have an avionics shop put it in, not true. I purchased my equipment used from a friend and installed it myself (IA).


I wonder if anyone has tried to put a portable through the validation flight. It's clear the FAA can tell what is triggering the client. Does your report say anything about the equipment?


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Just now, Marauder said:

 


I wonder if anyone has tried to put a portable through the validation flight. It's clear the FAA can tell what is triggering the client. Does your report say anything about the equipment?


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Attached is my PAPR flight results. While it doesn't say anything specific about the installed equipment, I did have to tell the website what I had installed after the flight when I was filling all the info in. I also had to put that I had a portable In solution (stratus 2). So I have to think that they know somewhat  what they are looking for. That being said, if you could build a 1090ES box that was portable and transmitted your tail number, I would bet that you could get it to 'pass'.

GAIRS_20170109_A8F1C8_32997731.pdf

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Attached is my PAPR flight results. While it doesn't say anything specific about the installed equipment, I did have to tell the website what I had installed after the flight when I was filling all the info in. I also had to put that I had a portable In solution (stratus 2). So I have to think that they know somewhat  what they are looking for. That being said, if you could build a 1090ES box that was portable and transmitted your tail number, I would bet that you could get it to 'pass'.
GAIRS_20170109_A8F1C8_32997731.pdf


It would be this part of the form that would have me a little hesitant of trying.

8d5c05fa8061b16a5cee8d9ea5a80ef9.jpg


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Thank you Yetti, I just read that link in entirety and that answers my question. I'll probably go with a GTX345 anyways but I wouldn't doubt some daring owners will implement a hodge-podge system to appear "legal" in ADS-B required zones. I'm curious why the FAA doesn't constantly broadcast the TIS-B data like the FIS data stream. It would be nice to just shoot a data pulse to "wake up" the ground station to acquire TIS-B data and let the receiver delineate traffic threats that are near the aircraft. Maybe XM will have a TIS-B option one day...


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Ok so Saturday a week ago coming back from the Mooney lunch in Leesburg I'm about to key my mic and I hear a Cessna 150 pilot call Ocala tower, "8 miles SE" . I called next "10 SE". Both of us were instructed to report 3 SE for base entry 36. I saw what I thought was the traffic on my iPad and Lynx unit. I had passed the traffic and was just about to call my base when the Cessna pilot called 3 SE. I was 3 SE! I called "3 SE and breaking off to the south" and was instructed to do a 360 and land #2. The Cessna traffic never showed up, the traffic I had passed was another airplane. 

Last week my buddy was doing an ILS approach with his instructor and when he called tower to report 8 miles out, the tower replied "do you have that other traffic that just reported 8 miles?" The instructor looked up and saw the traffic about 100 feet above them. Again, nothing on the ads-b. 

Radar coverage is great around most of the state. It is flat land and I normally show tis -b traffic as low as 100 feet at Ocala. Why didn't the radar interogated traffic show up on either of our units? 

 

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Ok so Saturday a week ago coming back from the Mooney lunch in Leesburg I'm about to key my mic and I hear a Cessna 150 pilot call Ocala tower, "8 miles SE" . I called next "10 SE". Both of us were instructed to report 3 SE for base entry 36. I saw what I thought was the traffic on my iPad and Lynx unit. I had passed the traffic and was just about to call my base when the Cessna pilot called 3 SE. I was 3 SE! I called "3 SE and breaking off to the south" and was instructed to do a 360 and land #2. The Cessna traffic never showed up, the traffic I had passed was another airplane. 
Last week my buddy was doing an ILS approach with his instructor and when he called tower to report 8 miles out, the tower replied "do you have that other traffic that just reported 8 miles?" The instructor looked up and saw the traffic about 100 feet above them. Again, nothing on the ads-b. 
Radar coverage is great around most of the state. It is flat land and I normally show tis -b traffic as low as 100 feet at Ocala. Why didn't the radar interogated traffic show up on either of our units? 
 


I think there is still some issues with all of the FAA based hardware. I had read somewhere that not all facilities had the equipment needed to make the new system work. If the traffic you saw (or didn't see) was mode C, there is a dependence of the ground based radar feeding the ADS-B system the radar feed from the current system.

They could also have either their mode C off or were experiencing problems with their equipment.

It could also have been an issue with your hardware. You may have had your ADS-B antenna blocked visually.

Keep providing information when this happens. I went with the active version of the L-3 because of concerns over what the new system could do.


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2 hours ago, Marauder said:


I think there is still some issues with all of the FAA based hardware. I had read somewhere that not all facilities had the equipment needed to make the new system work. If the traffic you saw (or didn't see) was mode C, there is a dependence of the ground based radar feeding the ADS-B system the radar feed from the current system.

They could also have either their mode C off or were experiencing problems with their equipment.

It could also have been an issue with your hardware. You may have had your ADS-B antenna blocked visually.

Keep providing information when this happens. I went with the active version of the L-3 because of concerns over what the new system could do.


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All very true. One issue with old mode C transponders is low power output. As the cavity ages its power is reduced (freq. shift also) making them undetectable by ATC at low altitude beyond 20nm. Newer solid state transponders do not have these problems.

José

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Seems like the methods for traffic detection on ADS-B are summarized as:

1) Air to air but limited by the transmitting and receiving frequency of the respective aircraft

2) radar fed to the ADSB system, but limited by Mode C/S targets. Primary targets or low powered mode C targets are not visualized.

3) No GPS position based traffic fed directly from ADS-B unit to ADS-B via ground receivers? Am I mistaken on this last part? If not seems like another potential hole in the system.

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On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 0:01 AM, Chupacabra said:

Ok so Saturday a week ago coming back from the Mooney lunch in Leesburg I'm about to key my mic and I hear a Cessna 150 pilot call Ocala tower, "8 miles SE" . I called next "10 SE". Both of us were instructed to report 3 SE for base entry 36. I saw what I thought was the traffic on my iPad and Lynx unit. I had passed the traffic and was just about to call my base when the Cessna pilot called 3 SE. I was 3 SE! I called "3 SE and breaking off to the south" and was instructed to do a 360 and land #2. The Cessna traffic never showed up, the traffic I had passed was another airplane. 

Last week my buddy was doing an ILS approach with his instructor and when he called tower to report 8 miles out, the tower replied "do you have that other traffic that just reported 8 miles?" The instructor looked up and saw the traffic about 100 feet above them. Again, nothing on the ads-b. 

Radar coverage is great around most of the state. It is flat land and I normally show tis -b traffic as low as 100 feet at Ocala. Why didn't the radar interogated traffic show up on either of our units? 

 

It's possible you were under ADS-B coverage, and that would be indicated on the Lynx NGT-9000 traffic page with the little yellow radar dish symbol. If that was the case, then the Cessna, which I'm assuming wasn't ADS-B OUT compliant, would not have been transmitted to you as a TIS-B target via the ADS-B ground stations.

Or...do you know if that Cessna was squawking mode A and mode C? Mode A targets will not be received by radar and re-transmitted as a TIS-B target; they have to report pressure altitude also in order to be a TIS-B target. Perhaps that 150 was only squawking 1200 w/no pressure altitude (mode C). If that was the case, then he'd be invisible to everyone except aircraft that have active traffic systems (TAS/TCAS) like the NGT-9000+.

There are many other scenarios that could explain why those targets weren't picked up by the NGT-9000, such as the status of the ADS-B ground stations around KOCF. Sadly, the FAA doesn't publish NOTAMS when ADS-B ground stations are inoperative and unable to send up TIS-B traffic.

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