Flightstream 210

[Ron McBride]

Will flight stream 210 stream ADS-B into my Ipad from and GTX 330 ES transponder?

Ron

[jonhop]

I'm no expert but from what I've read on Garmin's website, you'll need a GDL-88 with the FS 210, to show ADS-B weather and traffic on the ipad. The GTX 330ES is out only... more info here: http://www.garmin.com/us/intheair/ads-b/seven-questions/

[KSMooniac]

You need a GDL 88 or 39 to get the IN data. The 210 will only allow flight plan loading from iPad to panel GPS. I'm in the same boat, but haven't gotten a 210 yet.

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[NotarPilot]

I concur with Jon and Scott. The 330s are out only so there's no ADS-B IN to display. Get a GDL 39 or 88. 

[Jerry 5TJ]

ADS-B:

I do have the 33ES transponder for ADS-B out, a GDL-88 for ADS-B in, and FS210 to integrate all the boxes' data onto iPad and Garmin 796.  FS210 also adds another solid-state AHRS source.  Traffic and weather and flight plans appear on all the screens.  

Yes, you're going to need an ADS-B in receiver to see the weather and traffic.  

 

 

 

 

[sgrooves]

This is topical ... (bear with me, all of this is new to me). And hopefully my situation might shed a little light for you as well.

I have a 530W/430W stack, GTX 330 ES, Flight Stream 210, and Aspen PFD. So with the 330 ES I satisfy the ADS-B OUT requirement.

Currently I use the Stratus 2S for weather/traffic on the iPad (I had bought this when I was training in C172's). FS 210 at this point only to transfer flight plans (I was having other panel work so this was an easy add). I can get TIS-A traffic on the Garmins through the GTX 330 ES.

The GDL-39 and Stratus seem similar. Can I interface the ADS-B traffic and weather from the Status with the 530/430 via the FS210? I currently don't even have weather options/pages on the Garmins so I'm not sure if that works for the 530 or only the newer 796. If not, would EITHER  the GDL-88 or GDL-39 give me traffic and weather on the 530/430 combined with my GTX 330 ES? I don't even know where to begin with how this would interface with the Aspen PFD if I unlocked the weather/traffic there or eventually added an MFD....

Without spending an arm & a leg, at this point, is my best option to just continue to rely on my ipad/stratus for traffic and weather? It would be nice to get the pop-ups on Garmin's and/or Aspen, but not sure if its worth the $3-5k to upgrade from the GTX 330 ES to the GTX 345 or adding the GDL-88/39?

At some point, I'd love to replace the Garmins with a next-gen unit. So any upgrades I do, I'd love them to still be relevant/useful with a future upgrade. However, I've spent enough $$ fixing random things in my first 6-months of ownership and want to focus my time/$$ on getting my IR. Already passed the written, need to get in the air. 

[Ron McBride]

Thank You

I am currently running an XPS 170 dual to feed the Ipad. Wing X.  I am trying to get rid of the extra equipment solution.     Trying to be cheap and not get the GTX345 solution, and get the most from purchasing a GTX 330 ES.    I have a 430W for a position source.  I would prefer to have Garmin equipment so that they play nice with each other.        

 I have XM on the 496 also.    Another major panel redo is not in the cards, for a 46 year old F.

Anymore suggestions.

Ron

[Marauder]

This is topical ... (bear with me, all of this is new to me). And hopefully my situation might shed a little light for you as well.
I have a 530W/430W stack, GTX 330 ES, Flight Stream 210, and Aspen PFD. So with the 330 ES I satisfy the ADS-B OUT requirement.
Currently I use the Stratus 2S for weather/traffic on the iPad (I had bought this when I was training in C172's). FS 210 at this point only to transfer flight plans (I was having other panel work so this was an easy add). I can get TIS-A traffic on the Garmins through the GTX 330 ES.
The GDL-39 and Stratus seem similar. Can I interface the ADS-B traffic and weather from the Status with the 530/430 via the FS210? I currently don't even have weather options/pages on the Garmins so I'm not sure if that works for the 530 or only the newer 796. If not, would EITHER  the GDL-88 or GDL-39 give me traffic and weather on the 530/430 combined with my GTX 330 ES? I don't even know where to begin with how this would interface with the Aspen PFD if I unlocked the weather/traffic there or eventually added an MFD....
Without spending an arm & a leg, at this point, is my best option to just continue to rely on my ipad/stratus for traffic and weather? It would be nice to get the pop-ups on Garmin's and/or Aspen, but not sure if its worth the $3-5k to upgrade from the GTX 330 ES to the GTX 345 or adding the GDL-88/39?
At some point, I'd love to replace the Garmins with a next-gen unit. So any upgrades I do, I'd love them to still be relevant/useful with a future upgrade. However, I've spent enough $$ fixing random things in my first 6-months of ownership and want to focus my time/$$ on getting my IR. Already passed the written, need to get in the air. 

Welcome to the ADS-B confusion. Your Stratus or a GDL-39/A will not port weather to the 530. If you purchased a GDL 69, 84 or 88 you would be able to port weather to your app (ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot) through the 210. The same FIS-B and TIS-B would also show up on the 530.

If you purchased the GDL-88 and the Aspen unlock code for the PFD, you would get traffic and weather on the Aspen. The RTX-345 currently does not interface with the Aspen product but there are plans to have it do so.


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[kortopates]

On 12/2/2016 at 8:09 AM, N803RM said:

Thank You

I am currently running an XPS 170 dual to feed the Ipad. Wing X.  I am trying to get rid of the extra equipment solution.     Trying to be cheap and not get the GTX345 solution, and get the most from purchasing a GTX 330 ES.    I have a 430W for a position source.  I would prefer to have Garmin equipment so that they play nice with each other.        

 I have XM on the 496 also.    Another major panel redo is not in the cards, for a 46 year old F.

Anymore suggestions.

Ron

Ron, 

I am not sure what your question is. But you'll be fully compliant with the GTX-330 ES + GNS430; as an ADS-B out only solution. And you already have ADS/B In with your portable XPS-170 and perhaps WingsX (or the like) solution. 

However, if you have not yet purchased your 330-ES transponder, I personally would spring for the 345 (I already have) since its far more capable and will outlast the already obsolete 330-ES. For starters it will add the AHRS now and it will add weather and traffic displays to your GNS430 if you want (might as well, they'll need to wire it for the position source anyway). In the future, when you do upgrade your panel, it will feed wx and traffic to the GTN's, G500, and I think Aspen is in the works as well. The downside may be that if you are a WingX user, the 345 won't play with WingX; pushing you too perhaps Garmin Pilot or Foreflight (if you wanted to ditch the  Dual XPS-170 in the cockpit).

[JohnB]

On 12/1/2016 at 4:20 PM, N803RM said:

Will flight stream 210 stream ADS-B into my Ipad from and GTX 330 ES transponder?

Ron

Not by itself, as your GTX is only your ADSB out source. BUT if you have a stratus or similar device connected to your iPad, you will now get ADSB weather and traffic sent to your ipad. They purposefully lock that information from stratus if you don't have an out source, but it unlocks when you do have one. (I know this as i went through the exact same pathway in my upgrades)

If you want to eliminate your stratus  like receiver, you do need something like a GDL-88 to get ADSB information into your flightstream, then it will output to your ipad.

[kpaul]

7 hours ago, JohnB said:

They purposefully lock that information from stratus if you don't have an out source, but it unlocks when you do have one. (I know this as i went through the exact same pathway in my upgrades)

What?

I use my stratus w/ iPad in my own plane with 330ES and in work aircraft that are not ADSB out, I receive the same wx and traffic in both planes.

[cnoe]

What?

I use my stratus w/ iPad in my own plane with 330ES and in work aircraft that are not ADSB out, I receive the same wx and traffic in both planes.

At this time you must be within the 30-mile "hockey puck" of airspace from an aircraft broadcasting ADS-B Out before before a ground-based tower will ping you with the traffic data. You'll still receive direct broadcasts from others with ADS-B beyond (or within) 15 miles but you won't see plain old mode C traffic (unless you're in somebody else's puck area).

This is reportedly an FAA incentive to get people moving on the upgrade to ADS-B Out. AOPA and others are working hard to get this policy changed.

The weather's the same but traffic is downgraded.

Also please note that even with a complete system there are still a few holes in the traffic system. I've been ADS-B compliant with a receiver for ~3 years now and on occasion I've seen planes with my eyes that did not show up on my screen. Not all planes have transponders, and not all transponders are reliably functional. In addition planes at low altitude are often below primary radar coverage. I used to query such planes when sighted if they were using a transponder but often my inquiry just pissed off their pilot so I've now quit asking and just try to be more vigilant.

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[Piloto]

If flying low or on the ground it is almost impossible for ADS-B in to show mode C. That is because both the traffic and you must be in view of a ground ADS-B/UAT station. A mode C transponder may be replying to an interrogation but that is because the ground station interrogates with 2,000 watts vs a transponder reply of only 200 watts or less. In my hangar at FXE my transponder replies to ATC interrogations from FLL but ATC can not see me on the ground. However my ATD-300 can see all mode C traffic on the ground and in the pattern. But my hangar neighbor with ADS-B in only see transport traffic above FL 100. Nothing wrong with the ADS-B equipment it is just a limitation of the concept.

José

[Bennett]

If flying low or on the ground it is almost impossible for ADS-B in to show mode C. That is because both the traffic and you must be in view of a ground ADS-B/UAT station. A mode C transponder may be replying to an interrogation but that is because the ground station interrogates with 2,000 watts vs a transponder reply of only 200 watts or less. In my hangar at FXE my transponder replies to ATC interrogations from FLL but ATC can not see me on the ground. However my ATD-300 can see all mode C traffic on the ground and in the pattern. But my hangar neighbor with ADS-B in only see transport traffic above FL 100. Nothing wrong with the ADS-B equipment it is just a limitation of the concept.
José

Interesting. I see mode C all the time when on the ground at San Carlos (KSQL) with my GDL88 set up. This might be because San Carlos is under the flight path to SFO. Class B starts at 1500' on the east side of the field, and to the ground about 5 miles to the north. Lots of traffic displayed on my various screens. As more and more aircraft adopt ADS-B out I expect that most aircraft will show up at low altitudes everywhere.




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[kortopates]

3 minutes ago, Bennett said:

Interesting. I see mode C all the time when on the ground at San Carlos (KSQL) with my GDL88 set up. This might be because San Carlos is under the flight path to SFO. Class B starts at 1500' on the east side of the field, and to the ground about 5 miles to the north. Lots of traffic displayed on my various screens. As more and more aircraft adopt ADS-B out I expect that most aircraft will show up at low altitudes everywhere.
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I think its more likely as Jose points out that you are within range of an ADS/B Tower on the ground at KSQL. Have you checked? You'd have no problem picking up air-to-air ADS/B traffic from the ground anywhere which is something we call look forward too post 2020 (under what we currently call the mode C veil where a transponder is required) but to pick up a mode C target now our ADS/B in receiver must rely on an ADS/R transmission from a ground based tower.

I agree with Jose that using a ground based towers for all this really limited the low altitude capabilities for traffic and weather. But at least with almost everyone going to ADS/B by 2020 will eliminate the traffic deficiency's for the most part, but we'll still have the FIS-B limitations down low. 

One of the things I've enjoyed with XM when trying to beat some weather approaching airport is being able to startup and get an instant update as I taxi out to the runway and hold for release. I sure I don't have to wait till I get airborne and up a few thousand feet, which could be a half hour since I last saw the nexrad display on a computer. 

[Piloto]

4 minutes ago, kortopates said:

One of the things I've enjoyed with XM when trying to beat some weather approaching airport is being able to startup and get an instant update as I taxi out to the runway and hold for release. I sure I don't have to wait till I get airborne and up a few thousand feet, which could be a half hour since I last saw the nexrad display on a computer. 

I used to have XM on my aera 560 but the unit died. I went with Garmin Pilot WX (internet link) on my Samsung S7 and very happy with it. I Velcro the phone on the sun visor for better reception. Knowing weather just before takeoff helps in pointing out best heading to take.

José

[Marauder]

7 hours ago, Piloto said:

If flying low or on the ground it is almost impossible for ADS-B in to show mode C. That is because both the traffic and you must be in view of a ground ADS-B/UAT station. A mode C transponder may be replying to an interrogation but that is because the ground station interrogates with 2,000 watts vs a transponder reply of only 200 watts or less. In my hangar at FXE my transponder replies to ATC interrogations from FLL but ATC can not see me on the ground. However my ATD-300 can see all mode C traffic on the ground and in the pattern. But my hangar neighbor with ADS-B in only see transport traffic above FL 100. Nothing wrong with the ADS-B equipment it is just a limitation of the concept.

José

 

3 hours ago, Bennett said:

 

Interesting. I see mode C all the time when on the ground at San Carlos (KSQL) with my GDL88 set up. This might be because San Carlos is under the flight path to SFO. Class B starts at 1500' on the east side of the field, and to the ground about 5 miles to the north. Lots of traffic displayed on my various screens. As more and more aircraft adopt ADS-B out I expect that most aircraft will show up at low altitudes everywhere.




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It is my understanding that you will receive air to air traffic of all participating aircraft (that is, any airplane that is broadcasting ADS-B out on 1090ES or UAT 978) and any non-participating airplanes that are broadcasting mode C or mode S (without squitter) if you are either receiving it as a re-broadcast from either an ADS-B tower or you are in the hockey puck of a plane receiving those towers (15 nm radius and +/- 3500 from your airspace location). What may be happening with Bennett is that he is in a highly congested airspace with lots of ADS-B out airplane flying above him and that he is in their hockey puck. It is highly unlikely that he is receiving TIS-B from the towers being on the ground, but if he is close enough to one, perhaps.

[kortopates]

12 minutes ago, Marauder said:

What may be happening with Bennett is that he is in a highly congested airspace with lots of ADS-B out airplane flying above him and that he is in their hockey puck. It is highly unlikely that he is receiving TIS-B from the towers being on the ground, but if he is close enough to one, perhaps.

When Bennett is receiving traffic in the hockey puck of the aircraft near him, that is not ADS-B air-to-air. the only way he is receiving it is from the ADS-B/R rebroadcast from the ground tower. There is no other way for him to get a Mode C target in his ADS/B TIS-B feed.  But yes, I would have to agree with you, it unlikely his ADS-B Out is being picked up by a local ADS-B ground tower, its more likely he is picking up the ADS-B/R rebroadcast from the ground tower courtesy of other enabled ADS-B traffic in the pattern or nearby.

Out west here, we do have a few airports where people have claimed of getting FIS-B on the ground, so it is possible but that is what I would consider the acid test of whether you could get reception from an ADS-B tower on the ground.

[Bennett]

I'm sure you are right about rebroadcasts where KSQL is situate. We are very close to SFO which has a constant stream of commercial airliners and private jets. I will have to find out where the nearest ground station is situate. What I do know is that when I am anywhere on the airport (outside my hangar) I am seeing a lot of aircraft in our local pattern, and I don't believe many of the flight schools' aircraft are equipped yet with ADS-B out.


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[JohnB]

10 hours ago, kpaul said:

What?

I use my stratus w/ iPad in my own plane with 330ES and in work aircraft that are not ADSB out, I receive the same wx and traffic in both planes.

If you're within range of another's ADSB out transponder, yes that's correct.  Another flaw I noticed when I had only the stratus in, with no out solution, I noticed that if no one pings a ground station with an adsb out signal for a while (usually in remote areas), it can sometimes stop sending even adsb weather to "non participating" aircraft (ADSB in only). That inspired me to get at least an adsb out solution, which then I got consistent weather and adsb traffic.

9 hours ago, cnoe said:

At this time you must be within the 30-mile "hockey puck" of airspace from an aircraft broadcasting ADS-B Out before before a ground-based tower will ping you with the traffic data. You'll still receive direct broadcasts from others with ADS-B beyond (or within) 15 miles but you won't see plain old mode C traffic (unless you're in somebody else's puck area).

This is reportedly an FAA incentive to get people moving on the upgrade to ADS-B Out. AOPA and others are working hard to get this policy changed.

The weather's the same but traffic is downgraded.

Also please note that even with a complete system there are still a few holes in the traffic system. I've been ADS-B compliant with a receiver for ~3 years now and on occasion I've seen planes with my eyes that did not show up on my screen. Not all planes have transponders, and not all transponders are reliably functional. In addition planes at low altitude are often below primary radar coverage. I used to query such planes when sighted if they were using a transponder but often my inquiry just pissed off their pilot so I've now quit asking and just try to be more vigilant.

Here here cnoe! Ive noticed the same thing.  When I had the Stratus and the ADSB out transponder, traffic was still very spotty, did get ADSB out participating traffic, but not get everyone with a transponder on my ipad even though I had an out solution. On my separate active traffic system at the time, it pretty much got everything with a transponder. It wasn't until I merged the two with a gdl-88 that I got all traffic displayed on all of my display devices.

[Bennett]

I have been searching for an online map that shows the ground transmitter locations. Plenty of maps showing coverage, but finding the actual locations of the transmitters is difficult. I found that an individual has been gathering information from Stratus users that can download this information to Foreflight as waypoints. I haven't done this but he has also posted a (non official) Google Earth map with some locations mapped. Since I have been trying to determine the closest tower/s to San Carlos, I didn't try an view the entire country. What I found is that SFO has two towers and that the distance between SFO and KSQL is less than 10 miles. There are no intervening hills between those towers and KSQL, and this might explain why I can see Mode C aircraft TIS-B while I am on the ground.

I found the materials on the Pilots or America website under forums. I am not a member, and I could not copy the postings, but anyone should find, and view, the topic: ADS-B ground station locations.


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[M016576]

10 minutes ago, Bennett said:

I have been searching for an online map that shows the ground transmitter locations. Plenty of maps showing coverage, but the actual locations of the transmitters is difficult. I found that an individual has been gathering information from Stratus users that can download this information to Foreflight as waypoints. I haven't done this but he has also posted a (non official) Google Earth map with some locations mapped. Since I have been trying to determine the closest tower/s to San Carlos, I didn't try an view the entire country. What I found is that SFO has two towers and that the distance between SFO and KSQL is less than 10 miles. There are no intervening hills between those towers and KSQL, and this might explain why I can see Mode C aircraft TIS-B while I am on the ground.


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You can "turn on" tower locations in foreflight.  That and the ADSB map on the FAA website, which visibly shows the towers (but doesn't list the lat/longs) is the best resource I've found for locations.  Not exactly sure why they aren't published and readily available... maybe the FAA is afraid of hackers?  

[ArtVandelay]

29 minutes ago, M016576 said:

... maybe the FAA is afraid of hackers?  

Terrorists...with powerful transmitters you go override proper transmissions and give false position reports. I assume they attempt to verify reporting with passive radar or error checking, like comparing positions with previous reports....I hope.

[Marauder]

You can "turn on" tower locations in foreflight.  That and the ADSB map on the FAA website, which visibly shows the towers (but doesn't list the lat/longs) is the best resource I've found for locations.  Not exactly sure why they aren't published and readily available... maybe the FAA is afraid of hackers?  

John Collins on the PoA site was at one time tracking their locations. I know he was a consultant on the FAA deployment project. Wonder if he completed this location tracking effort?


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[cnoe]

As M0 said they display on my ForeFlight map and there are several around here. I've never gone searching for one but may do so later today just for fun. I'll report back if I find one and may snap a pic for y'all, that is if I don't crash into the tower.


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