Cirrus down in Houston - fatalities.

[cnoe]

It's just as likely that the parachute was dislodged by the force of the impact.  Think back to the recent parachute landing in the east, after touch down the canopy slowly settled on to the building.  No where in this case did I see the canopy laying at the crash site.

Clarence

After seeing that terrible video I'd have to agree. The force of impact sent debris flying and the harness wasn't apparent. In the attached photo sent by a friend though it's clearly laying out next to the plane so I suspect that emergency crews removed it if not out already.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, cnoe said:

It's just as likely that the parachute was dislodged by the force of the impact.  Think back to the recent parachute landing in the east, after touch down the canopy slowly settled on to the building.  No where in this case did I see the canopy laying at the crash site.

Clarence

 

After seeing that terrible video I'd have to agree. The force of impact sent debris flying and the harness wasn't apparent. In the attached photo sent by a friend though it's clearly laying out next to the plane so I suspect that emergency crews removed it if not out already.

I hadn't seen that picture.  It does bring up an interesting topic for fire fighters knowing what dangers are involved aside from fire.

Clarence

[DXB]

I've never landed at a Bravo and have wondered when I know I'm ready to try.  I'm a vfr 250hr pilot who is based at a Delta immediately adjacent to a Bravo. I've landed at numerous Deltas and Charlies and have transitioned multiple Bravos including NYC on flight following.  I am now fairly comfortable getting  vector and altitude assignments in rapid succession  when transitioning my own Bravo to get home.  

Yet somehow landing at one when enmeshed in lots of heavy jet traffic terrifies me.  Mainly the thought of being told to keep my speed up to the very end and staying aware of wake turbulence. Now also the thought of feeling  pressured under difficult wind conditions.

It appears this pilot wasn't ready, but I don't really know what makes someone ready. I know the first time for me wont be with passengers.

 

 

 

[Ftlausa]

Because of where I fly, transiting Bravo and landing at Bravo airports have become a regular occurrence for me.  How've, I remember being anxious about my first landing at a Bravo at KTPA, but the controllers were great, and it turned out being much easier than my home base at KFXE.  

No way of knowing what the Cirrus pilots Bravo experience was, but it appears as though the strong quartering tail wind was a problem for her.  It also seem that the "keep it in tight" instruction might have led her to over bank the plane on the go around, leading to the stall spin.  Someone commented above, if you cannot do the maneuver safely, simply say "unable."  The controller may get annoyed, but your life could well depend upon not following the intruction.  I think it hard for less experienced pilots to reject a controllers instruction, but you are PIC, and you have to always fly within the capabilities of the pilot and plane. 

[flyboy0681]

On 6/10/2016 at 8:07 PM, gsengle said:

One of my cirrus concerns was always control feel, given the bungee trim system. How does the trim situation change when you go to full power on a full flaps go around?

Certainly demonstrates that basic airmanship, even in this era of synthetic vision and autopilots, is a serious important business.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've often wondered about the side-stick too. There have been many times when I have had both hands clenched firmly on the yoke, for whatever reason (mostly rough air). I don't have any experience with a side-stick, but wondering when things get really bad whether a good old yoke would provide a better outcome.

[Bob_Belville]

33 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

I've often wondered about the side-stick too. There have been many times when I have had both hands clenched firmly on the yoke, for whatever reason (mostly rough air). I don't have any experience with a side-stick, but wondering when things get really bad whether a good old yoke would provide a better outcome.

A stick between your legs seem better.Richard Simile shared a video on FB this week of Svetlana Kapanina who can handle a stick: 

 

[gsxrpilot]

16 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

A stick between your legs seem better.Richard Simile shared a video on FB this week of Svetlana Kapanina who can handle a stick: 

 

On an unrelated note, I spent some time chatting with Richard today at Austin Executive Airport today. He was displaying a very nice Acclaim.

[201er]

2 hours ago, DXB said:

I've never landed at a Bravo and have wondered when I know I'm ready to try.  I'm a vfr 250hr pilot who is based at a Delta immediately adjacent to a Bravo.

It appears this pilot wasn't ready, but I don't really know what makes someone ready. I know the first time for me wont be with passengers.

I would recommend doing your first one with an experienced pilot or experienced instructor. You don't know how much pressure it will be and if you will be able to handle it or not so having someone with you helps a lot. Also, taxiing a huge airport can sometimes be a bigger challenge than flying in to it. Instructions such as "taxi runway 32L via B, H, H2, cross runway 4L, C, hold short of 4R" are not uncommon. 

I reiterate the word "experienced" about the pilot with you because I have discovered that there are plenty of inexperienced instructors that would potentially be a first or one of first times in such an airport for as well.

[Guest]

Why not contact the tower at the airport and ask them for a time recommendation to plan an arrival in a quieter time for a lower stress experience.

Clarence

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

But to be honest when I have received an instruction like that at an airport I am unfamiliar with I say I am unfamiliar and can I have taxi following please.  It works everytime.  

Andrew

That's "progressive" (taxiing), She'll watch you and give you one turn at a time.

[Ftlausa]

Foreflight or Safetaxi are a huge help with taxing at an unfamiliar airport.  It also helps to plan ahead and see which runway would be closest to the FBO. At a large bravo with parallel runways, landing on the closest side to the FBO can make the taxi much easier.  I find that the approach controllers and the tower often try to get GA aircraft on a particular side of the airport if they can. 

As for side sticks, I have a good bit of time in a Cirrus (one of my back-up airplanes), and I am not a big fan of the lack of control surface feel. I have also flown the Cessna 400, and I prefer the feel of that side stick.  The key is keeping the airspeed up and not over banking when slow regardless of the aircraft. There have been several cirrus crashes under similar circumstances that I have read about.  Not picking on cirrus, but it may be a bigger problem with them because of the lack of control surface feel. I have heard that postulated by a number of people. 

In any event, this was a very sad and preventable crash that just makes me sick when I think about it.  The video is gut wrenching, and my heart goes out to the family.  Crashes like this should be a learning lesson to everyone, and I am glad that we are talking about the lessons that can be learned.  Hopefully the discussion will help prevent another tragedy.  

[Doggtyred]

On 6/9/2016 at 9:45 PM, M20S Driver said:

Can someone familiar with the airport educate me on why she was cleared to land on rwy35 with winds out of East 13 gusting to 18?  Why not runway 4 or 12?  

Very familiar with the Houston Terminal Airspace, field and the ops, but not recently. 

Before IAH added the third E-W Parallel, Hobby's (airport diagram) primary runway in use was 12R/30L and approaches primarily came over the middle of town and from the NW of Hobby, or from the SE from Galveston. Bush  (airport diagram) will almost always land east or land west on the parralels (before and after the expansion and airspace redesign in the 2000's) and send all departures out on 15 L. GA would be vectored to 15R to stay out of the flow. The only variation on that was with bad winds, when departures and landings all had to use 15/33 complex, at which point everyone's push times go to crap

At hobby. Next to their then primary runway of 12R/30L There was a smaller, shorter parallel 12L/30R that they would side step GA traffic onto. 4-22 was only in use when winds were a factor. 17/35  was one of the legacy runways, and the only time it was used for airline traffic when I could remember was when the 04/22 rebuild was undertaken and the intersection of 04/22 and 12/30 complex. It was actually more useful for parking during the superbowl. Adding the third runway at Bush changed the airspace dynamic, and Hobby was realigned to have primary runway be 04 and approches from the SW of the terminal airspace. 

If we still were allowed to do Land And Hold Short with GA on intersecting runways, she would have made her first approach with the the rest of the inbounds on 04, and when she went missed, she could have been sent on Left traffic and brought around for 17 (hold short of 04) or one of the 12's (hold short of 04). That is no longer allowed, and there were several inbounds on the path for 04, so the only meaningful option the controller had operationally (without declaring an emergency and giving her priority) was to bring her to the right and set her up to land on 35 (which is plenty long, by the way.. 6000 feet) with that quartering tailwind. Then the controller could have kept the inbound flow without having to issue a hold short direction to the cirrus. 

The sad irony is.. the push of traffic was clearing up and she was being vectored back around to try and land either into the wind or on 04 when she stalled it in. Second sad irony, there was a world class runway 7 miles away at Ellington that would have put her landing into the wind and no airliner traffic to compete with.. She was over her head, and it was hard to listen to. 

Regarding the CAPS, the rocket fired at the same time of impact. I do not know if it misfired on impact, or if she was pulling the red handle and didn't have enough time.The chute was still in the bag and did not deploy. 

[jkhirsch]

Just read through this thread, very sad. For those curious ones the name of the holding company for the plane only makes it "worse."