EAA / Dynon STCS

[Bennett]

Well it's actually starting to happen. EAA is developing STCs to allow the use of Dynon products in certified aircraft. The first ones are for replacing primary AIs with the Dynon 10 series EFIS. So far the STC is for the smaller Cessnas and Pipers, but they promise expansions to other aircraft. Hopefully Mooney will be one of them. One drawback is that it "can't" drive an autopilot under the STC. Still, a very useful instrument that can add an AOA, and with the magnometer option, winds and more. It would be fantastic if this process moves on to the Dynon SkyView glass screen units - very capable boxes, at very low cost. I used SkyView in my LSA. and they were reliable and matched or exceeded many of the Garmin boxes. Just about all the Dynon units have backup battery options.

[KSMooniac]

This is tremendous news!  It will be great to have more modern options and competition in this arena.

[DXB]

I imagine this will delay people's upgrade plans and also drive down the price of the currently STC'd options like Aspen pfds/mfds and Garmin G500. Those manufacturers can't be too happy after their investments. 

Too bad I already updated my panel.  I sure ain't gonna add anything more for a few years, until the new price landscape takes hold fully.  

[N601RX]

Interesting that EAA was the one who took the lead on getting this done for certified planes. 

http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/04-06-2016-stc

[Yetti]

$2200 vs $10,000.   Probably need a decision matrix to work through that process

[KSMooniac]

I'm downright giddy thinking about the doors this might open!  Kudos to the EAA for doing something really tangible.

I'm dreaming that two of these could be installed for an AI & HSI combo with reversionary capability.  I'm not sure if this unit can interface to a non-Dynon autopilot, though.  It would be nice if it could hook up to my STEC and hopefully provide GPSS functionality to replace the separate GPSS module I currently have installed.

[smccray]

Just now, KSMooniac said:

I'm downright giddy thinking about the doors this might open!  Kudos to the EAA for doing something really tangible.

I'm dreaming that two of these could be installed for an AI & HSI combo with reversionary capability.  I'm not sure if this unit can interface to a non-Dynon autopilot, though.  It would be nice if it could hook up to my STEC and hopefully provide GPSS functionality to replace the separate GPSS module I currently have installed.

Hopefully that capability will give Dynon something to announce before Oshkosh!!!!

[N601RX]

It's interesting that they are allowing this without requiring them to get TSO approval or be manufactured under a PMA.  It goes against all the regulatory guidance the FAA has released in the last 10 years.  It will be interesting to to see if there are any flight limitations or other requirements linked to the STC.  My IA put one in his 172 several years ago when it was still possible under a field approval, the only stipulation was a place card saying VFR only.

[Godfather]

2 hours ago, DXB said:

I imagine this will delay people's upgrade plans and also drive down the price of the currently STC'd options like Aspen pfds/mfds and Garmin G500. Those manufacturers can't be too happy after their investments. 

I don't really care if another year or two goes by...not planning on opening up my wallet until a certified g3x touch or comparable comes along.  The current examples are coming up on eight years and IMO the major players are getting ready for a release.

i purchased a 330es four months before they released the updated models.  I'm not going to sink 25k into a system that will be superseded within a year or two.

[mooniac15u]

21 minutes ago, N601RX said:

It's interesting that they are allowing this without requiring them to get TSO approval or be manufactured under a PMA.  It goes against all the regulatory guidance the FAA has released in the last 10 years.  It will be interesting to to see if there are any flight limitations or other requirements linked to the STC.  My IA put one in his 172 several years ago when it was still possible under a field approval, the only stipulation was a place card saying VFR only.

It sounds like the FAA may be using the approach described in the Part 23 rewrite. Dynon verified performance against an appropriate ASTM standard. 

[Yetti]

When it comes to computers the Airplane world is a bit nutty.  It's a screen, processor, input device, and software.  I replace my laptop about every three to four years for about $300.   It's pretty hard to figure out how to spend $7000.00 for a 15 year old used G430W.   What is the upgrade to WAAS like $3000.00  My year 2000 handheld GPS has WAAS and it was only $300.00

Ah but you say Certified, TSO, or PMA....  I would say the PMA, Certified and TSO has about the same failure rate as the non stuff does.

[cnoe]

Kudos to Dynon and EAA. It's a start.

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[Marauder]

When it comes to computers the Airplane world is a bit nutty.  It's a screen, processor, input device, and software.  I replace my laptop about every three to four years for about $300.   It's pretty hard to figure out how to spend $7000.00 for a 15 year old used G430W.   What is the upgrade to WAAS like $3000.00  My year 2000 handheld GPS has WAAS and it was only $300.00

Ah but you say Certified, TSO, or PMA....  I would say the PMA, Certified and TSO has about the same failure rate as the non stuff does.

Baker touched on this topic in his speech as well. But when I found out the EAA actually made it happen, I joined EAA while here.

[cnoe]

Yes, EAA is looking much better than AOPA in my eyes at this moment in time.

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[FlyDave]

If Garmin really wanted to bring "lifesaving technology to the cockpit" for all of GA then why did this initiative start with EAA with Dynon chosen as the first Vendor. Jim Alpiser from Garmin seemed a little "taken aback" by the announcement. Will Garmin no longer be the "swinging dick" they thought they once were?

https://youtu.be/EnqCHu1NkL0

[Marauder]

If Garmin really wanted to bring "lifesaving technology to the cockpit" for all of GA then why did this initiative start with EAA with Dynon chosen as the first Vendor. Jim Alpiser from Garmin seemed a little "taken aback" by the announcement. Will Garmin no longer be the "swinging dick" they thought they once were?

https://youtu.be/EnqCHu1NkL0

Garmin probably is in the same state of shock they were in when they found out cell phones were taking the place of dedicated portable GPS units in cars.

[KSMooniac]

Stolen from Beechtalk a few days ago:

Ian Jordan here from Dynon Avionics, one of the engineers on the STC project.

To clear up some things:

1) The STC does not change the operating limitations of the aircraft. If it could fly IFR before, it can fly IFR after.

2) Right now, the STC is specific to replacing a vacuum powered attitude indicator in an aircraft. The main purpose was to replace the primary attitude indicator in a plane. I believe it can be used for a secondary that was in the TC as well. 

The secondary functions of the D10A such as Angle of Attack, airspeed, altitude, heading, winds aloft, OAT, are all allowed to be used, but are secondary to the primary instruments in the plane, which must remain.

3) Dynon and the EAA would really like to thank the FAA for their help, and we're excited to keep applying this to other avionics. This is just the beginning, and given our experience we should be able to do more soon.

4) We do hope to expand the AML list soon, and we'd love to do your airplane. Please add yourself to our interest list so we know what planes to work on next:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GptoMZD9cF1BoQld_WPFTPpqz7m7Iu3wZCJ8y4Td9ww/viewform

Happy to answer more questions!

--Ian Jordan
Chief Systems Architect
Dynon Avionics

[Hank]

Signed up! Now we wait a little faster . . .

Cmon, fellow Mooniacs! Let's get Mooney added to the list next. It's all a numbers game at this point.

[cnoe]

Done! Thanks for the link KSM.

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[FlyDave]

I signed up too.

[PTK]

On April 6, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Yetti said:

$2200 vs $10,000.   Probably need a decision matrix to work through that process

2200$ vs. 1200$ For the Garmin G5 and a much much smoother and slick display. High definition!

 

[cnoe]

Let's hope Garmin sees the writing on the wall and gives us a path to hardware such as this and the G3X. It looks like the FAA is ready to play ball.

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[cnoe]

The Garmin's display appearance is indeed superior to the Dynon, but it's my understanding that the G5 is a supplemental instrument to the G3X and will only provide "attitude" by itself. The Dynon has an independent ADAHRS that gives you speed , altitude, heading, etc. on it's own. That would more than justify the higher price IMO.

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[Guest]

1 hour ago, PTK said:

2200$ vs. 1200$ For the Garmin G5 and a much much smoother and slick display. High definition!

 

You are correct concerning  pricing, but one is a now a legal STC and one does not.

Clarence

[1964-M20E]

I wonder.

 

Looking at the Dyson site the unit will also act as an HSI.  Install 2 of them $4,400 one is primary AHRS second is HSI and secondary AHRS.  Modular so addresses any issue with one at a time not the whole unit like a G1000 and less $$$ than an ASPEN 10000.