What should i get?

[Samurai Husky]

Just now, carusoam said:

Practicing with random changes of WnB is not very logical.  When the balance departs the flight envelope.  The plane may be departing controlled flight shortly afterwards.  Trying to call a husky out from the far back reaches of the cockpit  may not work.  Some dead weight that had slid to the back, won't be coming forwards.  Tales are not powerful enough to lift things beyond the WnB envelope.

This is something you use calculations for.  An app like WnB can work pretty well, so can a spread sheet.

It's that serious.

Next challenge... Weight vs. OAT vs. length of runway.  Look up density altitude and how it effects T/O run.

Ask more questions, we'll be here all day...

Best regards,

-a-

I thought you were referring to a dog moving from baggage area 1 behind the back seats towards the front of the plane at the back seats and throwing off the envelope? I know what you mean by W/B and CG, so i was trying to logically determine what you meant; Found a handy calculator, but if i had to i could do it manually. I have actually gone through 2 separate ground schools. Mostly because the ASA one was really good at teaching concepts and details but applying the knowledge was lacking. Becasue of this i felt it was necessary to try another ground school and see if it would help nail home the concepts better. So i went through Glieim which i found the details to be lacking, but the applied knowledge (through questions and scenarios) to be much better. I think the WB section was 63 story problems and took me about 4 hours to get through since they make you do it all by hand.

For the runway specs; The KPAO runway is ~2440ft no 50ft obstruction, but there is a 100ft obstruction 1mi from the airport in the form of a power transmission lines. That is on runway 31. If flying off of runway 13, the only thing to worry about is Moffet Feild airspace which is 1 mile from the end of the runway. So you are taking off and making a turn while staying under 1000ft to avoid their airspace. 

KFFZ is twice as long; only 1300ft higher. However, it will be hotter; but with 5000ft to work with i dont see any issues. Where i would see more issues is if i ventured to somewhere like Tahoe where the elevation is 6300ft. But the cooler air and 8500ft runway should make it a none issue.

What i did learn from this exercise, is that i would not be able to fill the tanks with 2 dogs and my self plus some luggage; If i put another person into the equation, then that limits the amount of fuel i can carry even more (down to about 60gal maybe a little more); Though if it got to that point, i might consider removing the 2 back seats completely, which would get me another 5gal or so. 

Do you have the page for take off and landing distance out of the mooney manual? I have been trying to find it for the o2 and cant come up with it. I think it would be fun to do some manual problems to different airports as practice.

@glafaille

What makes that one better then say: http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1413251/1979-cessna-turbo-r182rg-skylane

I only ask because there is a big price difference. 

[glafaille]

Samurai-

Here is a review for you: http://timbroom.com/N5284T/Cessna-182RG-Review.pdf

The review is for both models of C182RG, you have to pick out the info on the Turbo.

[glafaille]

Difference in price could be any number of things.  Avionics, overhaul time, who did the overhaul, general condition, damage history, maintenance history etc.  Plus some year models might have differences in performance or max gross weight or other factors. It's a "can of worms" for sure to figure out if a particular plane is fairly priced.    It takes a lot of time and research to do it well.  For a person in your situation, you might be better off hiring a buyers broker to find a plane for you at a fair price.

Plus there are a lot of sellers that don't REALLY want to sell their plane!  The wife tells them to get rid of it, so they price it high, and tell you that it's the best one on the planet.  Then you spend money to go see it, and find it's nothing like it was described and the guy is just stringing you along to show his wife that he is TRYING to sell it.  Been there done that!!

[Samurai Husky]

Just now, glafaille said:

Difference in price could be any number of things.  Avionics, overhaul time, who did the overhaul, general condition, damage history, maintenance history etc.  It's a "can of worms" for sure to figure out if a particular plane is fairly priced.  It takes a lot of time and research to do it well.  For a person in your situation, you might be better off hiring a buyers broker to find a plane for you at a fair price.

Plus there are a lot of sellers that don't REALLY want to sell their plane!  The wife tells them to get rid of it, so they price it high, and tell you that it's the best one on the planet.  Then you spend money to go see it, and find it's nothing like it was described and the guy is just stringing you along to show his wife that he is TRYING to sell it.  Been there done that!!

LOL!

Yea, i was just asking because it was almost 30k cheaper and 'happens' to be within driving distance. The place that its at is very well known around here and they do a lot good work. They also work with Top Gun Aviation who is a Mooney Service Center (not that it matters for this conversion, just a FYI); The 30k would buy a lot of Avionics. 

Im open to the Cessna, so long as I can make it from KPAO to KFFZ in a reasonable amount of time and on 1 tank. Peeing in a bottle is not my idea of a good time  4 hours is really near the limit. 

Luckily the dogs are better then me!

Still leaning towards to Mooney, but I need to see them both first, I'm keeping an open mind. 

 

[Samurai Husky]

Unfortunately it looks like both the Mooneys are gone. The owner put the F on stby for repairs and the Acclaim has moved on and they just didnt update the website.

I ended up walking up and down the isles of the airport to find another Mooney. Luckily, I found a 2000 Ovation that wasnt covered.That back baggage area is HUGE. Maybe it looks deceiving from the outside, but i would venture that both my dogs could fit back there and lie down if they wanted to. Maybe i should have clarified, my huskies are Siberians, not Malamutes; So they are smaller then a lab, maybe about 3/4 the size? So the Mooney is still in the picture  I didnt have enough time to go back and look for the 182. I will see if i can get off work early and hunt it down before my next lesson.

Outside of that, I used today's lesson to try something out; So once were done, I did some maneuvers at a slower speed (96kts) then jacked it up to full power 124knts (there was a headwind today) and did the same thing; This is only about a 38knt difference but, i could tell a huge difference as far as being able to do it right. So, the idea of doing the same thing at 230knts.... well I was stupid. Forget losing or gaining 100ft on a turn, i would probably +/-1000. I guess i just needed to experience it for my self to understand the difference. Had i ended up with a Rocket, I would have probably turned into a autopilot pilot and that is not a good way to learn how to fly. 

So, thanks for beating sense into me

I think i would be able to handle the Ovation, but i would probably fly it like a granny for a while until i could master it by sight and not rely on interments so much. Either way, the extra power would take some time to get used to, but at least i vaguely know what to expect. 

[Samurai Husky]

"When you get a chance, ask Mr. Trescott his thoughts on the longstanding limitations of the G1000 system.  Many pilots have been waiting for the next software or hardware update that is always around the corner.  We actually seem to be getting closer... "

He wanted to know what you specifically meant; He wasnt aware of any new hardware revisions to the G1000, Other than they are working on STC's for G2000's to end up in more planes; but right now the numbers are very low, but those are seen as the successor to the G1000; 

Personally i think garman needs to spend some time with Apple to figure out their OSD; I would like to customize the Colors the fonts and a whole bunch of other stuff on that screen to suit my visual acuity better. IE the pink indicators against a light blue background is not a good contrast. I know it was used by nasa, but that was back in the 80s; lets use more than 16 colors, the LCD can do 16.6Million!

 

 

[carusoam]

No beatings required.

1) See if you can find a POH and go through the T/O calculations using the graph that is given.  This is a basic question you want to answer for yourself before letting other people select a plane for you...

Weight and density altitude / temperature ARE important. Assume no wind at first, but this will be important as a next step.

then add wind with gusts for the higher level calculations, then change the wind to a cross-wind.  The calcs don't usually get any harder than that.

2) There used to be an M20J POH on line that was easy to access.  You can always download one for a reasonable price.  The J is a 200hp bird, fast, powerful and agile with really admirable T/O performance.

Assume you load yourself, your dogs and 50 gallons of fuel.  It's a sunny 90°F day.  Your friend knows a really cool airport that is selling cheap fuel.  The runway is 2,000' long.

Calculate the T/O distance for the J, include the gross weight of everything.  Assume a stand of 50' trees will be off the end of the runway.

Does the plane get off the ground safely?  Does the plane clear the trees safely?

3) I like this challenge because some of the really nice places to go only have a 2,000' runway.  Summer always happens and stays around for a whole season.

4) doing the Weight and balance calcs are two separate calculations.  The plane will have a weight limit that is really best to not exceed.  We have a picture around here with a young guy who took selfies while flying an overloaded Mooney.  The flight didn't end very well.  Everyone survived.  Lessons learned: Don't role the dice with people's lives in the plane. Don't take dumb selfies.

5) Doing the balance calcs, a modern POH is required here as well.  Fill the seats with yourself and your dogs.  You can assume the dogs are sitting in seats like people.  Do the worst case where they both decide to move to the cargo area.  Follow up with them both moving to the front seat.  Does the plane run out of forward trim?  Does the plane run out of backward trim?

I think I know the answer to these questions.  I have not calculated them out myself.  Two things to consider  the WnB and the T/O limitations of the plane you are considering purchasing.

Repeat the calculations for the plane you are using where you have access to the POH already. Again, use the worst case scenarios of the dogs running to the front seat and cargo areas.  Will you need to pull the chute?

6) a For some interesting insider information, look through this document...

http://www.monticellofc.org/aircraft/MFC%20Mooney%20Transition%202.pdf#page14

It comes from a flight club that has a Mooney.  It covers the details typically used for transioning into their club.  They don't want to see any loss of equipment or pilots...

7) The WnB and T/O calculations are typical go/no go analysis that is done prior to a flight. Pilots will gain the knowledge over time for some short cuts like using an iPad app or have a bunch of calculations figured out already.

8) Nobody wants to see a pilot attempt to take off without doing the calculations, or getting the calculation wrong because it was too hard.

9) Get these figured out and you can determine which plane will actually fit your specific mission.  If you don't do these calculations, solo flight will become more of a gamble and less of a known thing...

10) If you really want to have some fun get the CloudAhoy app.  It is a student's data recorder.  Combine it with a WAAS powered ADSB device and you can compare your T/O calculations to actual T/O distance.

Keep studying.

I am only a PP, not a CFI.

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

The colors have had issues with other aviation apps as well.  That is on iPad and other portable equipment.  There was a dark blue with a medium blue background

There is a thread around here regarding the G1000 issues and the oncoming resolution.  Today, Another quarter has slipped by...

The G1000 panel's were to get updated with WAAS capabilities which add accuracy to allow vertical guidance and ADSB and some software updates regarding engine monitoring.  All stuff Garmin has been doing on other devices for years.

To get these updates to the customers that need them, requires Garmin and Mooney to work together and present their solution in front of somebody at the FAA.  The promises keep coming, but the resolution has never arrived.

I can only imagine what the price will actually be if and when it shows.

This is something that may effect your decision if you are to buy a glass panel because it looks modern to you.  Imagine getting halfway into a PPI and your mechanic says, you know this system is not able to perform half the GPS approaches that other systems can do.

That would be an interesting discussion to have with Mr. Trescott.  Try holding altitude, turn to a heading and discuss G1000 issues at the same time...

I don't have a G1000 system. But I would be dissapointed with Garmin if I did.  It turns out I'm not really happy with most avionics companies for failure to deliver reasons.

Best regards,

-a-

[Samurai Husky]

The G1000 stuff you bring up is very interesting. Which triggered a google search; Which lead me back here. So if i got a O2 GX, your saying i would need to upgrade the autopilot to a Gtn650/750 to get WAAS? I mean, I guess thats not as important right now; I would imagine it will be a while before i need to worry about IFR and GPS approaches on auto pilot. Im already bias about flying IFR in general because of what happened to my grandfather. So for me, i really want to be able to see the ground when i am coming into land. 

The IFR ticket is really just to be able to break up above the clouds if i need to; If the ceiling at the airport i was going to land at had lower than VFR, i would probably scratch going. I mean, thats the point of GA right? you never 'have' to be anywhere, unlike flying commercial where you 'have' to be at the airport before a certain time no matter what. I hear all the time where a IFR flight is coming in and then they tell tower 'never mind, we see the runway, switching to VFR approach' Which I imagine is them saying, we got this.

I agree with you on the Avionics stuff; It seems like all of the interesting avionic is all happening in the 'experimental' category. When i look at the G500 of even the G1000, they are showing their age badly. The 2/3/9000 look more of what i would expect from a modern cockpit of today. I doubt Garmin will put much more effort into the G500 or G1000; Now that they are starting to get more competition from Aspin, maybe they will offer a refresh to their retro fit line. 

For the TO&L chart, i was looking for something more like this. So If someone had one for the O2 (or i guess any of the M20R's) then that would be good. If not then i can use this for now; 

 

 

[Samurai Husky]

nevermind; found a manual for 99' Its probably the m20r Ovation, instead of the Ovation2, but that should be close enough right? 

Section 5 has TO/L distances. 

http://www.mooney.com/en/pdf/POH3800(B).pdf

for those that were wondering. 

[Danb]

S.H.  I have a Bravo GX, and love the G-1000, Long range tanks get me from Wilm., De To Texas, or New Oleans, Fort Lauderdale KCY, and the baggage are is large enough. Last year I did a pilots and pups run, saved a couple pit bulls and 6 large puppies. Had a large cage in rear and two on the seats, I could have taken the seats out, also could put the pups on copilot seats in a small crate. Mooneys are big enough for most of us, fast enough, and efficient( except for my Bravo) although I can back it off to 13 gph and still get 160 knots, not bad

 

[Yetti]

9 hours ago, Samurai Husky said:

Outside of that, I used today's lesson to try something out; So once were done, I did some maneuvers at a slower speed (96kts) then jacked it up to full power 124knts (there was a headwind today) and did the same thing; This is only about a 38knt difference but, i could tell a huge difference as far as being able to do it right. So, the idea of doing the same thing at 230knts.... well I was stupid. Forget losing or gaining 100ft on a turn, i would probably +/-1000. I guess i just needed to experience it for my self to understand the difference. Had i ended up with a Rocket, I would have probably turned into a autopilot pilot and that is not a good way to learn how to fly. 

 

Whoa dude you can't even control a plane.   I had my 85 year old dad (got his pilots license in the 60s but has not flow since) out doing 30 degree bank turns at 130 knots and he could keep it within 50 feet while flying from the right seat with no instruments to see. You seriously need to spend some time learning.  While it is fun to dream, maybe spending time learning airmanship would be the better investment at this point.

[Samurai Husky]

Control a plane? Of course not, Im a student and i cant even solo yet.

We were doing 45's; Also not sure what kind of conditions you were in. We are constantly flying in wind being on the west coast; combined that with updrafts off of the mountains and random thermals all over the place, its not exactly smooth air. The Cirrus is also weird. I would bank into a turn, and then at some point it was like someone dropped a 50lb weight into my hand, its not something i expected; Maybe other crafts are more forgiving, but i think he said we were in excess of about 2gs. Which i guess isnt a lot; But with a Cirrus, the flight Yoke is spring loaded; So the father you pull back, the harder it is to pull back. I am right dominate so left arm isnt as strong. I am used to curling 35lbs weight in my left hand, this had to be easily 50-55lb of back pressure.

I was joking that i need to start lifting weights in order to fly this plane. I have a feeling that the Cirrus is just not the plane for me in general. So we'll see once we start getting close to solo if he can take me up in a 172 instead and go through the whole range of maneuvers. 

Im not arguing with you; I need tons of work, many, many many more hours; But i think its unfair to judge with out knowing the conditions. I was told in my last 2 i would have passed the check ride; I also did the whole pattern and approach dead on with a 15mph cross and that was a first attempt at an approach. 

 

[Samurai Husky]

I probably should say this as well. 

I realize to everyone it seems way to early to be looking at planes, but i think this is actually the perfect time. Going through flight school is not exactly like college. You dont have 35hrs a weeks of classes to keep you busy. Its 3 hours, 1 or 2 times a week total. That leaves a lot of space in between to fill or forget. Once i can solo, then my free time will be taken up with that, but until then, what better way to fill that time then to gain the knowledge from the flying community? We have covered a massive amount of information in this topic, some mooney specific, some GA specific. I was taught many things that i otherwise would never have known. 

Had i waited until i was PPL, this topic would had been greatly shorter; I would have come in saying im a low time PPL, How good is the Rocket; Maybe 5-6 posts later the topic would have died and would be buying a Rocket. By saying I was a student, this place erupted into a whirlwind of differing ideas that apparently this board has never seen and while its been a long journey, it has been more than worth the time invested. 

So again, thanks for the support everyone.

[bonal]

Sam H, it seems like there are times you really push back then times you seem to absorb this vast amount of information. Sometimes one has the ability to see into the future and its 2 years from now and you have a couple hundred hours have finished your IFR and are flying your (whatever you choose) on your various missions. You look back on this thread and say holy Crap I can't believe how much I didn't know. As for control you are (as expected) having a hard time with some basic flight control. This is the reason it's best to train in a trainer. You still have the same challenge but you will achieve success and more importantly consistency as opposed to fighting an unforgiving airframe. Nothing wrong with training in your own plane I bought mine before lesson one. But I bought a C150 for less than a used car and enjoyed it for a few years then sold it for not much less than I paid. The difficult conditions you describe during your maneuvers believe me were not bad as I was flying the same day in the same area over mount Hamilton south east bay. And not knowing that is expected since you have much to experience as you progress with your training. I don't know anything about your CFI and I'm sure he is quite capable but if he isn't interested in getting you some basic trainer time just makes me think he wants to get you to buy a Cirrus for whatever reason. I know you can train in an advanced airplane but that is not going to make you a better pilot than someone that learned the basics of control in a true trainer. In fact it could lead to frustration that kills your dream of flying. Just a few cents worth coming from someone that is still new enough to this to remember the beginning and that I am still on a very steep learning curve.

[Yetti]

It does not matter the conditions.  You still have to fly the plane and make it do what you want it to. There is a glider base not far from where we were flying so as you might guess we get pretty good thermals going. Sounds like you may want to use the trim more.  My left arm is usually sore after manuevering the Mooney for awhile, but in cruise it just needs a thumb push or pull.

 

As you will find your thread is about the same as all the others around here.

[Steve Dietrich]

It kind of reminds me of sitting in the last day of road racing school at Bondurandt 30 years ago.  Some in the class wanted to go out and buy a Formula 5000 or  Porsche 935 as a a first car and others were looking for something as a stepping stone

What are your goals - is being a good pilot important to you or are you just looking for transportation. 

Personally I think looking for something to grow into  is great to a limit and you're probably well beyond the limit. My guess is that you want something that looks reasonably cool,. is reliable and most importantly a good learning experience.  The PPL is a license to learn and to get you safely through the next 200 hours.

A bounced landing in a 6cyl mooney can  be  about the same cost as a year at Harvard .

Also realize that it will be difficult to buy insurance on a very high performance airplane without an IFR ticket and some hours. 

The State of California exacts a heavy toll for changing you mind on the mission. 

Finally , for the first couple hundred hours the focus should be learning to fly stick and rudder not being a systems operator.   Have fun

I would opt for

         An inexpensive airplane   perhaps a 201   and a commitment to fly other airplanes for experience (soaring, perhaps seaplane acro experience)  .  Not sure how easy it is to get insurance on a retractable with very low time.    Plan to fly the airplane about 200-400 hours and see how you like flying, refine your mission and get your IFR ticket + some IRL experience.

 

Finally you might look for alternatives for the first 100 hours.....  rent, club , partner

 

 

Edited April 1, 2016 by Steve Dietrich

[Yetti]

Since you are all about research Read the thread below and tell us what you learn from it.  This one still makes me angry because the airport is close to my home field and it did not have to happen.

 

[bradp]

Okay this thread is becoming as circular as my directional gyro to the point where I am considering returning to my workstation to get actual work done. 

[Samurai Husky]

20 minutes ago, bonal said:

Sam H, it seems like there are times you really push back then times you seem to absorb this vast amount of information. Sometimes one has the ability to see into the future and its 2 years from now and you have a couple hundred hours have finished your IFR and are flying your (whatever you choose) on your various missions. You look back on this thread and say holy Crap I can't believe how much I didn't know. As for control you are (as expected) having a hard time with some basic flight control. This is the reason it's best to train in a trainer. You still have the same challenge but you will achieve success and more importantly consistency as opposed to fighting an unforgiving airframe. Nothing wrong with training in your own plane I bought mine before lesson one. But I bought a C150 for less than a used car and enjoyed it for a few years then sold it for not much less than I paid. The difficult conditions you describe during your maneuvers believe me were not bad as I was flying the same day in the same area over mount Hamilton south east bay. And not knowing that is expected since you have much to experience as you progress with your training. I don't know anything about your CFI and I'm sure he is quite capable but if he isn't interested in getting you some basic trainer time just makes me think he wants to get you to buy a Cirrus for whatever reason. I know you can train in an advanced airplane but that is not going to make you a better pilot than someone that learned the basics of control in a true trainer. In fact it could lead to frustration that kills your dream of flying. Just a few cents worth coming from someone that is still new enough to this to remember the beginning and that I am still on a very steep learning curve.

LOL, Sorry about that. Some times i have time to organize my thoughts and some times i dont; When i dont re-read what i write, it becomes a little abrasive and comes off as defensive. Thats why some of my posts are so long; because in order to convey everything that I am thinking in the right way, it can take paragraphs. After re-reading that post, i can see where it comes off wrong; When i was writing it in my head, i sounded like i was being positive and expressing that i know that i am a million miles away, but I am making progress and that shouldn't be discounted. So i apologize if i cam off like a jerk.  

Im slowly coming to that realization. The idea of bouncing a Mooney right now has me seriously reconsidering my near term objective. I was hoping that the Cirrus was complex enough that i could roll into a Mooney; But its starting to sound like thats a no; I would love to just rent planes; But after looking at my options; My only option is to fly the Cirrus after PPL; That will be the only plane that I will have enough hours in to qualify for the club insurance. Otherwise i would need a check ride and hours in something else, even a 172 requires time that i otherwise would not have. Thats what has me so fixated on a plane right now; The idea of getting a PPL and then being stuck stuck in an airplane that i dont like to fly is kinda worrisome. Also the club 172 trainer is beat to hell, which should give me a indication of what any airplane i end up buying will look like after 100 hours or so...

Thanks, you have given me more to think about. It might sound like this thread is becoming circular, but it really really isnt; Sometime it might take saying the same thing 2 different ways before i pick up on the intention and rationalize the advice. 

I mean look where we came from: Twin > Rocket > 20R > (Rocket) > 20J > (rocket) > PA46 > 20R > 182 > 20R now back to leaning towards a 182. 

 @Yetti

Was there ever a report on 'why' it went down? I am assuming its pilot error; But i dont know if there are blackboxes on small aircraft that would suggest what happand?; I did follow up searches and couldnt find the reason why it actually went down. 

I ask because we just did a bunch or training on autopilot and i was shown how the autopilot can kill you; I think there is something to be said about the 'quality' of hours in a plane rather than the 'quantity'; 

I think someone said that earlier, when he suggested that stopping around the same airspace for 200 hours wouldnt teach me much. 

 

 

[Steve Dietrich]

Do remember that the POH data is a new airplane,  no wrinkles, fresh paint, access panels fit , perfectly adjusted control surfaces , new engine, minimum number of antenna and a professional pilot. 

Departing into changing winds adds more

There's a great video of a mid-day takeoff from Columbia where a combination of little windshift, and perhaps less than optimal pilot technique led to a very unhappy ending.  The TV crew was there to do a story on a crash earlier in the day and caught it on tape.

[bradp]

Reference:

 

 

 

And (although I find the narrator a bid annoying...)

 

[Danb]

S.H. I don't think its to soon, I took my first lesson in a Cherokee 140, fell in love with that day did not want to pay rent so being the dumb accountant I started to crunch numbers the next day after the thrill wore off, I considered that I would need a trainer for the better part of a year, I had no clue, knew nobody in flying no internet yet just me my pencil and paper. Well I bought a 1977 Cherokee Warrior by my third lesson, killed me paying for the first two.  one of the best decisions I made, I bought the warrior for $ 17,500, sold it just prior to starting my IFR sold it for $ 18,000 8 months later so I basically had free flight for acquiring my PPL and bought a 1977 J. So a lot of the decisions are economic, i'm not suggesting the economy is the same 30+ yrs. later, get a paper, pencil and real guesstimate numbers and make an informed decision, why not.

[carusoam]

Sam,

(1) That is the 201 performance chart that illustrates the importance of knowing the details before committing to T/O.

The hotter the day gets, the thinner the air gets.  Thin air provides less lift.  Thin air also provides less hp.  This a very similar effect of performing at a higher altitude based on similar air densities.

Only the pilot in command can make the go / no go decision.  Not doing the calculation or making the decision before pushing the throttle in is an easy mistake to make and very challenging to undo before the trees enlarge in the windshield.

Your CFI will cover the chart and the safety margins he recommends.  Often, you go through the detailed calculation to the foot, and then multiply it by two...

With experience and actual measurements, you may be able to really cut back your safety margin.  The book data is pretty good. The performance of your actual plane may not meet that performance until you know it does...

BradP posted a video that graphically depicts this challenge.  The voice on the video suggested a safety margin of 50%.

 

(2) How did the weight and balance work with the two dogs roaming the cabin?  I picture one of the dogs checking out the hat rack in the back.  It may make a really comfortable dog house.  Often people will put 50 Lbs of tools in the cargo area for two reasons....

These are the two important lessons I learned better after getting the PPL.  A combination of book knowledge and experience.  Important and usable.

 

(3) Opinion piece: There is nothing cooler or faster on or off the planet than a Mooney aircraft.  

Any money saved by buying early on, can be offset by buying something that doesn't fit your longer term needs.  Having a plane that doesn't fit your longer term needs can be a small loss of time, money and other opportunities.  Planes as well as houses are selling again.  The economy is nearly glowing....

Your position allows for some options that are not often considered...  Saving money isn't the same driving force for you as it is for other people.  A good problem to have.

Train, Train, Train start looking for your Mooney.  Actual test drives are not that helpful.  Performance numbers are in the POH.  Test driving the POH will give you a method of culling out the non-Mooney options.  This gives you the ability to focus your purchasing efforts towards the length of the body, the power plant that makes sense,  and an instrument panel that meets your vision.

A good PPI uses a professional pilot/mechanic to test fly the plane for you.  He has the background to compare to other Mooneys.  His seat of the pants will be more sensitive than your seat of the pants.  His IR skills can give the panel a work out like it hasn't seen in a while.

A 300 AMU plane purchase has more in common with buying a house.  Selling it will be painfully similar. Not much like buying a car. Often people spend a lot of time to determine what they are looking for.  It takes so long, they miss out on opportunities.  Fully educated in the process, they are able to pounce on the next one that matches what they want at a price that works for them.

 

Get to know what you want.  Make a long list.  Prioritize it. Execute some steps. Reprioritize the list. Execute some more...

It's a fun process.  Especially if you end up with a PPL and various experiences including your IR.  It may become part of your life...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

 

 

 

[Samurai Husky]

Well, right now its about $184/hr wet to be in the Cirrus, which is why we have been flying full rich and full RPM the whole time (except when the maneuver dictates otherwise). I would assume that if i had to pay for fuel outside of the rental cost, we would fly a bit slower. Fuel is about $4/g, right now its slightly under that. 

The T182RG might be enough plane for me for the next year. Yea, its not as sexy, no it doesn't go as fast; but if that is similar enough to a 172; i think it would do the mission 'enough' to get by. As long as everyone agrees that its a good trainer craft. (someone said a 201 earlier, but there is not many out there); We already discussed why a 182 is better than the 210's;

Because i am a numbers guy the thing that hit home the best was 'you bounce a money, your out a years tuition at Harvard' meaning, i dont stick the landing, its a 35000 bill. Well, that clearly puts things into perspective because i dont have enough confidence in my abilities to risk 35k on a minor 'mistake'; 

Those 2 videos were amazing. I think the first one was completely preventable; Watching that plan try to take off, i think i would have cut the power and slammed on the breaks; But thats a hind sight observation. When presented with the situation in real time, im not sure how i would react. 

the 2nd video is also very eyeopening; I mean you read about this stuff in books; but the majority of your training is done on very long runways in a light craft. I mean the tanks in our plan are never much above the tabs. We did go over 'acceptable' tolerances and i think it was 25%; But this person is now talking 50%? that seems like it would eliminate a lot of runways from even being used..

@carusoam

I did the calculations; as long as the 2 dogs stayed withing the back seat area, Weather they moved from luggage area 1 to the back seats or both back there or both up there, it would be ok; I dont know what the hat box is, i suppose thats considered baggage area 2 with max weight of 30lbs? (I wasn't really able to see the inside very well and i didnt take that long too look because i didnt want people to think i was looking to steal stuff out of the plane) In general I think they are too big for 'hat' area; But you are right; I would need to put something there to keep them out or the plane would be out of balance. Afterall, there is a reason why there is a 30lb max limit for the area. I would need to do plan B, The young one can go in the very back, she doesnt move much while something is in motion; The other one can be in the back seats (keeping the seats up), i would just put a blanket in the foot area to even out the space; This is what i do in my car now; i put a beach ball in the passenger side foot area and a blanket over it, that way they can fit on the seat with out falling under the dash. 

But i think everyone has convinced me; I am sure it can be done, and i am sure i would be able to do it with enough practice and CFI help. But the more i think about it; the more of a risk i see this being. Any amount of money i lose on a starter craft would probably be made up for in CFI time trying to teach me to fly a plane I am not ready for. 

I know when i looked at the trainer craft (172) we had, there would be no way for the dogs to fit in the back, it was like the back seat of a sports car. But something slightly larger would work and work well enough for the near term. I just need to temper my expectations down a bit more.