GDL-88 GDL-84 430 upgrade?

[MARZ]

Looking at a couple options for the eventual ADS-B mandate

Do I

Upgrade my 430 to 430W and tie it to a GDL88 or GDL84

Not upgrade the 430 and buy a GDL88 or GDL84 with internal wass

Buy a transponder with internal WASS

Obviously the 430 WASS upgrade will bring the added capability of GPS approaches - how many out there use that instead of ILS.

the difference between the 88 and 84 is the display on the 430 and 530 etc - but I've heard the resolution is lacking on the 430 and I would more than likely not use that. 

 

[MitchS]

I have a 430W with the GDL-88 providing traffic information to it, and I have to say I'm quite happy with it.  And LPV approaches for the win!

Traffic display on the 430W is pretty nice too....it was busy here on Saturday since it was nice out! (Here's a nap of the display)

[carusoam]

1) The 430 has some pretty good HD screen technology for a 10 year old design.

2) A WAAS GPS is a requirement for vertical guidance on GPS approaches.

3) The number of GPS approaches will go towards infinity at a faster rate than ILSs go to zero.

4) They aren't installing very many new ILS approaches.

What you have described is mostly personal choices.  

Having both a WAAS GPS and a Navcomm/ILS, one is a back-up to the other...

Used 430Ws are in the 6AMU ballpark.  

It would be good to have at least one WAAS GPS.  Compare Used 430Ws, GTN650s and the similar Avidyne products...

Or help us all out, be the first to give a Pirep on a BK KSN770...?

Best regards,

-a-

[Jerry 5TJ]

1 hour ago, Mike Ropers said:

Looking at a couple options for the eventual ADS-B mandate

Do I

Upgrade my 430 to 430W and tie it to a GDL88 or GDL84

Not upgrade the 430 and buy a GDL88 or GDL84 with internal wass.  That's a waste: get the WAAS in the Nav so you can fly LPV approaches.

Buy a transponder with internal WASS  ditto

Obviously the 430 WASS upgrade will bring the added capability of GPS approaches - how many out there use that instead of ILS.  I prefer to fly the LPV rather than ILS.  Generally I only fly ILS when that's what the airliners are flying into a larger field.  LPV approaches are more alike, they are more stable and NOAA says.."As of March 3, 2016, there are 3,628 Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS) Localizer Performance with Vertical guidance (LPV) approach procedures serving 1762 airports. 1016 of these airports are Non-ILS airports."   

the difference between the 88 and 84 is the display on the 430 and 530 etc - but I've heard the resolution is lacking on the 430 and I would more than likely not use that.   it is fine for traffic and you can stream the weather to your iPad air for dazzling high resolution images.  

IMO, naturally.

 

IMO.

[MARZ]

@MitchS - Looks the person who told me the display on the 430 is picky on his interpretation of resolution - that picture is defiantly acceptable in my book.

@carusoam - I was leaning that way as well - when I got the 430 three years ago I bought it used and sold a King 155 net cost was about 3 amu net (plus insstall)  for the sake of the forum I've started a go fund me @ KSN770 for Ropers  

@Jerry 5TJ - see now that kind of stats are exactly what I need to help convince the CFO with something other than "cuz everyone else has one"

 

Thanks all!

[Bob - S50]

You might consider updating your 430 and buying at GTX345.

As others have said, that gives you LPV and LP approaches, which I much prefer over the ILS.  Given the choice, I'll always pick the LPV.

With the GDL84 or GDL88 you have to keep your current transponder.  Slight decrease in useful load (about 4 pounds) because you are adding a box rather than replacing one.  If you get the 88, it only displays on your GNS, no wireless unless you spend more money to buy a flightstream 110 or 210.  And there is some FIS-B data you can't get on your GNS.  The 84 is only wireless, no display on your GNS.  Both are UAT out.  Someday, when Canada and/or Mexico require a mode S transponder, you won't have one.  More money.

The GTX345 gives you a mode S transponder, replaces a box rather than adding one, displays on your GNS and wirelessly to your tablet; all in one box.

From what I can tell, the GDL88 + FS210 is about the same cost as the GTX345.  The GDL84 is about $1000 less and includes the WAAS GPS.  That saves you about $1000 plus the cost of the GNS upgrade.  Of course, adding another GPS means installing another GPS antenna so that will increase the installation cost, and you still wouldn't be able to fly an LPV approach.

As the commercial used to say, "you can pay me now, or pay me later."

Best of luck,

Bob

[Marauder]

@MitchS - Looks the person who told me the display on the 430 is picky on his interpretation of resolution - that picture is defiantly acceptable in my book.

@carusoam - I was leaning that way as well - when I got the 430 three years ago I bought it used and sold a King 155 net cost was about 3 amu net (plus insstall)  for the sake of the forum I've started a go fund me @ KSN770 for Ropers  

@Jerry 5TJ - see now that kind of stats are exactly what I need to help convince the CFO with something other than "cuz everyone else has one"

 

Thanks all!

Mike -- on the 430/530, there are a few things that are different than the 650/750 when displaying from the GDL-88. Not that they make a whole lot of difference.

You will only get TIS-A symbols on the GNS. On the GTN series they use Target Trend display. This will show the line in front or rear of the plane on the display. If the line is showing out of the rear, you are gaining on the target.

The second difference is that on the GNS series, only 8 airborne targets are tracked. The GTN will track up to 60 including airborne and ground.

And finally, the GNS will not display PIREPs, airmets, sigmets, NOTAMs and winds aloft. The GTN series will.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jerry 5TJ]

6 hours ago, Marauder said:

....The second difference is that on the GNS series, only 8 airborne targets are tracked. The GTN will track up to 60 including airborne and ground....

8 targets seems plenty -- If there are 60 targets inside the 2 mile ring, I want to be somewhere else.

[ArtVandelay]

4 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

8 targets seems plenty -- If there are 60 targets inside the 2 mile ring, I want to be somewhere else.

The problem is where is the 9th target, how do you know there is missing targets?

i know my local airport has flight training school, 2 parallel runways, 8 is definitely possible.

[Jerry 5TJ]

18 hours ago, teejayevans said:

The problem is where is the 9th target, how do you know there is missing targets?

i know my local airport has flight training school, 2 parallel runways, 8 is definitely possible.

Well, TJ, if there were even 8 targets inside the 2 mile ring (on the GTN650 display it is about 3 cm in diameter) it would be a messy blob of diamonds, altitude readings and lead-out vectors anyway. 

I agree the newer systems are more flexible.  Garmin says

"The advanced capabilities of the GTN series avionics and G500/600 flight displays allows for enhanced functionality with the GDL 88. When there are several traffic targets in an area, these devices will declutter the display by grouping the targets and showing only the one that is the highest priority. The pilot can touch a grouped target to ungroup and show all targets in the area. The GTN and G500/600 also allows the pilot to select any target on the display to view more detailed information including closure rate and ground speed."   (ref: https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/in-the-air/avionics-safety/weather-solutions/gdl-88/prod63471.html)

I have tried this ungroup feature; it works on my G500/GTN750/GDL88 system.   But mainly I just go by the "flat" presentation of targets; and it is rare to see more than two inside the 2 mile ring.  Maybe that's the automatic declutter feature working as more targets show on the 650 traffic page than pop up on the G500. 

[ArtVandelay]

34 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Well, TJ, if there were even 8 targets inside the 2 mile ring (on the GTN650 display it is about 3 cm in diameter) it would be a messy blob of diamonds, altitude readings and lead-out vectors anyway. 

Add FS210 and you can show traffic on your iPad on the map page zoomed in as much as you like, forget the 2 mile ring restriction. This fixes the 650/430 small screen problem.

[co2bruce]

On March 3, 2016 at 8:38 PM, MitchS said:

I have a 430W with the GDL-88 providing traffic information to it, and I have to say I'm quite happy with it.  And LPV approaches for the win!

Traffic display on the 430W is pretty nice too....it was busy here on Saturday since it was nice out! (Here's a nap of the display)

That's not busy, in South Florida around the airports you can't seperate the traffic from one another. The display is almost worthless, unless it's yellow or red. That gets your attention.

[MitchS]

@co2bruce very true!  Granted it was busy for those of us in the middle of cornfields!

[jlunseth]

I would upgrade the 430 to WAAS and get a KT74.  That's all you need, you are in compliance with the ADSB mandate at that point.  If you want a good traffic display, get something portable.  I would not invest in a panel mounted display until the waters quiet down on ADSB and prices.  Stratus 2 and an iPad with Foreflight is a great combination.

[flyer7324]

I have a KT 74 for sale that I purchased new about a year ago complete with tray and connector.

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