I think I may have found a Mooney. Thoughts? Engine/prop?

[CJpilot316]

10 minutes ago, carl said:

you should fly the plane when you see it. 

and post pictures before you put money down. 

Its out of annual currently, but I'm gonna do a pre-buy/annual and hopefully fly it. The mechanic that maintained my Skyhawk for while has been maintaining the Mooney, and he tells me its in excellent shape. It had been a Midwest plane before, so its clean and dry, with no hail damage. All logs SNEW as well. 

[Guest]

This web page explains Lycoming model changes.

http://www.meyette.us/LycomingEngineNumbers.htm

Clarence

[carl]

C J ,we are all excited.

 

 

23 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Clarence

Clarence ,

I'm just throwing this out there. if this is a Lycoming 0-360-A2F, then it has changed from original. if there is a 337 then all is great.

what if there is no 337 found.then what must be done?

carl

 

[Guest]

Just now, carl said:

we are all excited.

 

 

Clarence ,

I'm just throwing this out there. if this is a Lycoming 0-360-A2F, then it has changed from original. if there is a 337 then all is great.

what if there is no 337 found.then what must be done?

carl

 

Carl,

I'm not sure how Lycoming handles model changes or how the FAA would want it documented. TCM has an SB covering model conversions. Typical example stamped on the data plate would be TSIO 520KcNB.  In this case born as a TSIO520K converted to an NB.

I would think that at very least a log book entry detailing the changes made for the model conversion.  Worth asking Lycoming for details.

Clarence

[Hank]

Clarence, a quick read of the document you posted shows the difference between the O-360-A1D that I have and a -A2F is only the magnetos. Surely that change would be easy to document?

[carl]

9 minutes ago, Hank said:

Clarence, a quick read of the document you posted shows the difference between the O-360-A1D that I have and a -A2F is only the magnetos. Surely that change would be easy to document?

or would it be a mess , like buying a plane without log books and then trying to prove everything was in compliance? . I have no clue.

 

[CJpilot316]

3 hours ago, carl said:

or would it be a mess , like buying a plane without log books and then trying to prove everything was in compliance? . I have no clue.

 

The plane and engine have all the logs, but this is a different engine than came with it from the factory. I'm going to be doing a prebuy on the plane in the next few weeks, and delve a bit more in depth.

As far as paint, it's in good shape, so I'm gonna look to do a scuff and clearcoat. I plan on running the engine to 100 hours past TBO (200 hours from now) and sending it in for overhaul then, most likely put a top prop on it at the same time.

[steingar]

On February 8, 2016 at 8:23 PM, CJpilot316 said:

Its out of annual currently, but I'm gonna do a pre-buy/annual and hopefully fly it. The mechanic that maintained my Skyhawk for while has been maintaining the Mooney, and he tells me its in excellent shape. It had been a Midwest plane before, so its clean and dry, with no hail damage. All logs SNEW as well. 

I've said this before, but it bears repeating.  An unworthy airplane is scrap, and worth nothing more.  If the seller wants to annual it, fine, I'll pay for an airplane.  Otherwise I pay scrap value and not a dime more.  If the seller doesn't want to annual the airplane there's likely a reason.

[CJpilot316]

Just now, steingar said:

I've said this before, but it bears repeating.  An unworthy airplane is scrap, and worth nothing more.  If the seller wants to annual it, fine, I'll pay for an airplane.  Otherwise I pay scrap value and not a dime more.  If the seller doesn't want to annual the airplane there's likely a reason.

I'm a believer that an airplane, at the very least, is worth the sum of its parts. I always buy accordingly. It went out of annual in August, the owner is getting older, and almost did a gear up during a BFR with an instructor friend of mine. The instructor told him during the flare what he had forgotten...and It scared him into buying a fixed gear Cessna.

[mike_elliott]

7 minutes ago, CJpilot316 said:

The instructor told him during the flare what he had forgotten...and It scared him into buying a fixed gear Cessna.

The instructor waited far too long to remind him of his gumps check. This could have ended badly

[orionflt]

CJ,

Where are you and this plane located? the plane definitely sounds like it has a lot of potential but make sure some one other then your mechanic who has been working on it take a good look tru the plane.

 

Brian

 

[CJpilot316]

Just now, mike_elliott said:

The instructor waited far too long to remind him of his gumps check. This could have ended badly

I don't think so, the owner wasn't feeling comfortable with it, and had discussed it with the instructor sometime before. A good instructor will let a student get to the point where the mistake will shake them up without bending metal...that's the best way.

You're in Tarpon Springs? Ill be basing the plane out of Whitted or Clearwater Airpark.

[mike_elliott]

22 minutes ago, CJpilot316 said:

I don't think so, the owner wasn't feeling comfortable with it, and had discussed it with the instructor sometime before. A good instructor will let a student get to the point where the mistake will shake them up without bending metal...that's the best way.

You're in Tarpon Springs? Ill be basing the plane out of Whitted or Clearwater Airpark.

Yes, I take care of and fly a J Model in kclw, and fly a Bravo out of Hidden lake.

Personally, I believe a good instructor would have made the point by saying "go around" 50 up over the numbers. That would have been sufficient, without risk of an incident. Bad things can happen 5' off the ground without the gear out. He would have asked him "did you do your gumps check?" long before that. That would have shaken up the student also if it were forgotten. I know this works, as I have done this with many transition students and have seen the results.

[CJpilot316]

3 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

Yes, I take care of and fly a J Model in kclw, and fly a Bravo out of Hidden lake.

Personally, I believe a good instructor would have made the point by saying "go around" 50 up over the numbers. That would have been sufficient, without risk of an incident. Bad things can happen 5' off the ground without the gear out. He would have asked him "did you do your gumps check?" long before that. That would have shaken up the student also if it were forgotten. I know this works, as I have done this with many transition students and have seen the results.

I just know the story from what the owner told me, I can't say how high off they were. Either way, not very important.

I'm leaning towards basing at CLW, the fuel price is quite a bit lower than Whitted. More of a hometown airport feel.

[Mooneymite]

39 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

The instructor waited far too long to remind him of his gumps check. This could have ended badly

Mike, that's a tough call.  Perhaps the instructor's real motivation was to scare the gentleman into getting a fixed gear, lower performance aircraft, in which case he succeeded.  If his motivation was pure training, I agree with you.

[mike_elliott]

11 minutes ago, CJpilot316 said:

I just know the story from what the owner told me, I can't say how high off they were. Either way, not very important.

I'm leaning towards basing at CLW, the fuel price is quite a bit lower than Whitted. More of a hometown airport feel.

fair enough.

I like KCLW also, just wish it had an approach. Hangers are expensive and not available. Shade hangers are expensive and maybe available.

 

[mike_elliott]

7 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Mike, that's a tough call.  Perhaps the instructor's real motivation was to scare the gentleman into getting a fixed gear, lower performance aircraft, in which case he succeeded.  If his motivation was pure training, I agree with you.

Understand, Gus. I might have tried a less risky tactic to accomplish this. Actually, I am faced with just this right now with one Mooney pilot. Sad thing is his stick and rudder skills are fine, just the cognitive stuff.

 

[carusoam]

Proper training includes Scaring and shaking-up?

I guess it depends on who your student is and what the objective is.  Sending a potential Mooney buyer back to the Cessna 172 camp?

Since everyone is capable of cognitive overload while learning to fly.  How do these techniques help?

All pilots are capable of being distracted (the technical kind not the watching pretty girls go by kind).

I thought the old style of training went away with the video strips and cassette tapes or the invention of VHS tapes?

Just berating you guys, 

-a-

[Marauder]

Proper training includes Scaring and shaking-up?

I guess it depends on who your student is and what the objective is.  Sending a potential Mooney buyer back to the Cessna 172 camp?

Since everyone is capable of cognitive overload while learning to fly.  How do these techniques help?

All pilots are capable of being distracted (the technical kind not the watching pretty girls go by kind).

I thought the old style of training went away with the video strips and cassette tapes or the invention of VHS tapes?

Just berating you guys, 

-a-

Believe it or not, I believe there are some instructors out there who do yell and scream as part of their normal approach. Happen to see one on the ramp belittling a student for not taking off the tail tied down on the pre-flight.

At my airport, we have Unicom playing through a speaker. And I remember hearing part of a tirade another instructor was giving their student (not an instructor from my airport) through an open mic.

If an instructor did that with me, they would experience my side ejection seat technique.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Yetti]

Shame works.  I heard the phrase "Ok Cessna boy you gonna put that gear up"  or "hmmm what do I hear is that a fuel pump still running"    I hear those words go through my head every now and again as I check things off

[carl]

"I plan on running the engine to 100 hours past TBO (200 hours from now) " CJ

Mike Busch used this description of TBO, " it is like the average life span of a person. Some people die early and some live well beyond the average."

At TBO , you may have a great engine that can go well beyond 2000 hours. If you are not using it in some commercial application just fly it until the compression numbers start looking bad or you are finding metal in the oil.

 

I Like the little picture thing, good addition.But you got to have some pictures of the Mooney. 

[jetdriven]

its great to plan to run it past TBO but make dead sure you can afford to overhaul it the day after you buy it, becasue its only maybe a half chance it will run that long.

[CJpilot316]

40 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

its great to plan to run it past TBO but make dead sure you can afford to overhaul it the day after you buy it, becasue its only maybe a half chance it will run that long.

I hear ya Byron. I fly a lot of IFR, mountains, and over areas with little or no population. (The backwoods of Maine, over the Allagash) Running far past TBO is not something I plan on trying.

And yeah Carl, I figured it was time to put something there.

[steingar]

23 hours ago, CJpilot316 said:

I'm a believer that an airplane, at the very least, is worth the sum of its parts. I always buy accordingly. It went out of annual in August, the owner is getting older, and almost did a gear up during a BFR with an instructor friend of mine. The instructor told him during the flare what he had forgotten...and It scared him into buying a fixed gear Cessna.

Sorry to beat this dead horse, and if you really are set on this bird go for it.  But the sum of an airplane's parts are worth what someone would pay for them.  Take the price of scrap aluminum, it isn't much.  Then take the engine core, don't price little idk its a new engine because it isn't.  Then price out the avionics, keep in mind they may be 50 years old.  what you get ain't much.  A friend sold an old (and airworthy!) 310 for scrap, got in the low 20's.  And that's an airplane with two engines, lots off aluminum, tip takes, and a 530 and a 430 in the panel. 

Now if its a flying airplane, that's a whole different story.  The difference between a pilot of scrap and a flying airplane is airworthiness.

Sorry, I don't believe at all in airplanes, especially not Mooneys, which have hidden airplane killers.  I believe what my mechanic tells me.  Not someone else's mechanic, my mechanic, who will be the one doing the maintenance with me.

My thoughts, for what they're worth, which isn't much.  But if you're going to go ahead I can only wish you the best of luck, and hope that I am as wrong as can be.