Hangar Rash - Opinion

[glafaille]

Gentlemen-

I am considering the purchase of an M20C with a bit of hangar rash on the wingtip.  Anyone care to render an opinion of the degree of damage, cost to repair or even if repair appears necessary?

On anothe note the engine is mid-time but last overhaul was 1994.  Would you continue flying or overhaul?

Thank you.

[kmyfm20s]

The engine wouldn't concern me if it had 250 recent hours on it with no metal in the filter and the valves look good. That is my is my number and I'm not a mechanic. Besides the wing tip damage the paint looks clean for the year but it looks like deeper damage than what appears in the picture. It look like involves the wing tip, aileron, and the top skin that bows. I would have that checked into by a pro before I considered it.

[ArtVandelay]

Almost every 30+ year old plane is going to have some blemish or 2, if it's just cosmetic I wouldn't bother repairing. I would ask for more pictures, top, bottom view, and aileron

[carusoam]

Hangar rash is one of those things that creeps and grows.  There doesn't seem to be an allowable standard of how big a dent can be or where it is acceptable to have one.

Wings and control surfaces are more critical than cowling and fuselage.

Part of the Pre Purchase Inspection is to ascertain if leaving that particular dent would be acceptable.

for additional experience, find the thread that started with the title F the FAA. There is a whole learning experience of what to avoid.

Just because one mechanic signed off each year at annual doesn't mean the FAA will see it the same way.

Best regards,

-a-

[Hector]

Gentlemen-

I am considering the purchase of an M20C with a bit of hangar rash on the wingtip.  Anyone care to render an opinion of the degree of damage, cost to repair or even if repair appears necessary?

On anothe note the engine is mid-time but last overhaul was 1994.  Would you continue flying or overhaul?

Thank you.

If the engine is otherwise fine with good compressions, not making metal, good oil analysis, I would not overhaul. I purchased my C four years ago with a mid time engine and a 1996 factory overhaul. The lowest compression is still 77 with very good oil analysis. She still has a strong engine (climbed to 16000 a couple of weeks ago and could have gone a little higher). The wing tip damage does not look bad to me. I don't see any creases that might require NDI

[jetdriven]

That aileron is a balanced control sufrace and that flat end on the wingtip is the rib. You may be able to save the skin but it will need a new rib and another aileron. used ailerons arent bad, but a new one is 3500$.  Replacing the wingtip rib isnt so hard, but reskinning that outboard section will take a couple days.

[Yetti]

It aint going to fly right.  It was backed into something.  The aileron was shoved into rest of the wing then pulled back out.  Needs to be fixed. Aileron mounting points may be bent also

[cliffy]

Unfortunately Mooney has no "allowable dents" section in any repair manual that I know of, unlike say, a Boeing. Could be wrong but I don't think so. Therefore no one, not even an IA, can wave a magic wand and legally say it is airworthy. If it was sitting on a ramp and an FAA Inspector walked by you would be in the same boat as the one in the above mentioned thread. The airplane is on the ground and the Feds would be looking at everyone as to why it was signed off. That doesn't even take into account the fact that a primary flight control is damaged and being flown unrepaired. There is more there than meets the eye.

Here's what you do if you doubt it

Take a few good pictures and make an appointment with your local FSDO Maint Inspector, show him the pictures and ask his opinion.  

 

[glafaille]

Thank to all for your advice.  

I think I will pass on this plane, sounds like a can of worms already.  I try to avoid visiting the FAA FSDO, kind of like walking into the lions den.

[cliffy]

Ya and all the while you're carrying a chunk of meat.  BTW it's a kindler gentler FAA now :-) 

Seems I heard that before years ago.

[glafaille]

They're not happy till you're not happy!

[C-GHIJ]

That doesn't look that bad and shouldn't be a real costly repair.  I wouldn't say "no" to the deal if the price was adjusted.  Have a qualified mechanic look at it and give you an estimate and use that as a negotiating tool.

[carl]

yep they are really well designed for repair and replacement ..

where is the plane ? 

where are you ? 

 have you seen the plane or is it pictures? 

there are guys here who will help you out  .

 

[glafaille]

The plane is about a 6 hour drive East from my house.  It is on my list as a possible candidate and very near the top with one big advantage, an STEC 2 axis autopilot.  And one big disadvantage, a mid time engine (good) but 20 years since overhaul (bad).  The wingtip damage is an unknown, and it's difficult to determine the cost to repair without actually taking it somewhere for evaluation.  I think that your average A&P would be reluctant to estimate the cost to repair, need to talk to a sheet metal guy instead.

I have pretty much decided to look at a couple of other candidates first before committing to a 6 hour drive to see this one.

I need a 150 KT airplane and as this is an unmodified "C" it likely won't be fast enough.  I'm looking for a highly modified "C" or an "E" model (stock or modified).

[N601RX]

On December 13, 2015 at 6:59 PM, cliffy said:

Unfortunately Mooney has no "allowable dents" section in any repair manual that I know of, unlike say, a Boeing. Could be wrong but I don't think so. Therefore no one, not even an IA, can wave a magic wand and legally say it is airworthy. If it was sitting on a ramp and an FAA Inspector walked by you would be in the same boat as the one in the above mentioned thread. The airplane is on the ground and the Feds would be looking at everyone as to why it was signed off. That doesn't even take into account the fact that a primary flight control is damaged and being flown unrepaired. There is more there than meets the eye.

Here's what you do if you doubt it

Take a few good pictures and make an appointment with your local FSDO Maint Inspector, show him the pictures and ask his opinion.  

 

The only place I've saw dents mentioned is in the paint section of the maintenance manual. It just says fill them with body filler without offering any guidance on how big or where they may be filled.