A/C Grounded! Part Needed and Can't Be Found

[kmyfm20s]

No offense , but his license , his rules....(his ass)

With that said, whoever "grounded" this plane is STILL a first class reg weenie.

[Hank]

No offense , but his license , his rules....(his ass)

You forgot "my money."

I'd never go back, post his name here and tell everyone I know that he grounded your plane over something not needed to fly.

[Shadrach]

No offense , but his license , his rules....(his ass)

No offense taken. It's a landing light and the regs are clear. His ass is not really on the line here. He's not a god, it's his job to abide by the regs, not make them up. Enabling this kind of douche baggery is one of the problems with GA. At least folks can still vote with their wallets.

[cliffy]

Jeez folks where are you going with this? The switch is broken, it can be "inoped", nobody said it couldn't, BUT the owner wants it fixed before he flies again so in his mind it is grounded. His call as he owns the airplane. 

Nothing was ever written in the logs "grounding" the airplane! No shop "grounded" the airplane! The owner says it's grounded until it gets fixed! We're stretching things a little too far here people.  

 

No new switches are available anywhere, after numerous calls, that is why junk yards are now being checked. 

 

I might add that if you have never been the subject of a full on FAA investigation you have no idea what you are in for when it comes to following regulations. 

 

Here's an example from an FAA lawyer who said recently about installing flashing LED position lights-

1 violation for installing them

1 violation for signing them off

1 violation for an annual if one was done

1 violation for EVERY flight that was flown with them installed!

Plus you would be subject to a violation of 91.3 and 91.13

And the snowball rolls down hill from there!

 

It just ain't worth it to be cavalier about the regs.

[Marauder]

Cliffy -- did they check with Flame? They are a distributor that can get them. In fact, we tried one of our fabled group buys that never materialized with Flame: http://mooneyspace.com/topic/2371-sensata-klixon-rocker-switch-group-buy/?hl=klixon

There is a lead time but not $1,100.

Here is a link to their catalog: http://www.flamecorp.com/Sensata/PDF/klixon-circuit-breaker-aircraft-catalog.pdf

And to their site: http://www.flamecorp.com/Sensata.php?gclid=CN6cpNWYh8cCFUuRHwodgs8MAw

If this owner modified this plane to include these rockers, I think the 25 amp is the wrong rating. All of the Klixons I have seen for landing lights have been 20 amp. Be glad he doesn't have the relay in the circuit like mine does. That relay was hard to find.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[MB65E]

Hi Cliff, The owner just wants a switch to be replaced on an unobtanium part? So am I missing something on why the 72xx breaker switch can't be installed. Yes we all know the rectangled labeled rocker switches are a pain in the ass, but it's just a switch for a landing light.

And on the FAA weenies...I agree. I realize I make a living with my IA too. Granted if I was signing the annual, I would tell the owner at annual to change non conforming parts but good grief. Let's all relax!!!!! I wonder how many violations were issued as OSH this year. (Probably none) Every other certified airplane I looked at had either the paddle LED lamps or the cylinder LED lamps. I agree that the red LeD lamps are not as bright at the original lamps. However they do draw about 5a less than the original. I know what the right thing to do is , but if an owner wants to install whatever he wants on his own airplane... Who really cares!

Just some late night frustration on why the Feds are so silly. If it's not a safety of flight issue, it shouldn't matter.

-Matt

[cliffy]

Hadn't thought about suggesting the ball lever Klixon switch but I will. Remember I'm just in this as I was asked to look around for the switch. If I could find one, fine!  Maybe it would work until the correct one is found as the owner wants. It's MIL spec so it's OK to use. 

 

MB65E we think alike and I was just bringing to the forefront issues that frustrate me when I see people unknowingly or purposefully put themselves in legal jeopardy with the FEDs. Granted the chances of an issue happening is slim but all it takes is an accident or a ramp check and a FED flexing his feathers. Been there done that. Went toe to toe with a 121 Fed on the ramp in KMDW once but I had my ducks in a line and won. He got transferred. Have seen others raked over the coals even here on this board with a recent thread on a ramp check out of the blue. I just don't want anyone to get the shaft if they don't have to.  I've gone 50+ years in this business of flying and A&P  stuff without any LOIs, violations, accidents, bending an airplane or hurting anyone but I've seen s*&t happen when caution is thrown to the wind. Lots of it is avoidable with a little common sense. 

I too think some of the "certified" crap is just that-crap but unfortunately I don't think we will ever live long enough to see the Pt 23 overhaul. it's being buried for a reason. It will never see the light of day so until then we all need to take care because there are Feds out there that want to make a name for themselves. 

And I understand that I am getting older and less tolerant of certain things but what I really want is everyone to enjoy flying as much as I have for half a century and keep the Feds out of your hangar.

[RobertGary1]

If an inspector wants to bust you he can bust you at any time regardless. I had one 1/2 jokingly ask where my cigarette lighter was since its part of the original equipment. He pointed out that you need a log entry and a "no W&B change " statement.

[tony]

I agree, just about any inspector can find something wrong with any older airplane.  I'm sure none of us have pristine airframes that look like they did coming out of the factory. 

[Shadrach]

Jeez folks where are you going with this? The switch is broken, it can be "inoped", nobody said it couldn't, BUT the owner wants it fixed before he flies again so in his mind it is grounded. His call as he owns the airplane.

Nothing was ever written in the logs "grounding" the airplane! No shop "grounded" the airplane! The owner says it's grounded until it gets fixed! We're stretching things a little too far here people.

No new switches are available anywhere, after numerous calls, that is why junk yards are now being checked.

I might add that if you have never been the subject of a full on FAA investigation you have no idea what you are in for when it comes to following regulations.

Here's an example from an FAA lawyer who said recently about installing flashing LED position lights-

1 violation for installing them

1 violation for signing them off

1 violation for an annual if one was done

1 violation for EVERY flight that was flown with them installed!

Plus you would be subject to a violation of 91.3 and 91.13

And the snowball rolls down hill from there!

It just ain't worth it to be cavalier about the regs.

The above statement does not match the statementsthat you made earlier quoted below. Apparently it's now the owner that wants the plane grounded for a landing light switch and not the shop that is "picky about FARs"???

 

Forgot to add- Why is it grounded?

Because the shop is picky about FARs and the owner doesn't want to deactivate the system as called for in

91.213

and

 

Yes you can fly day vfr BUT you still have to comply with the "inop" equipment regs to remove or disable the item, including log book sign off.

Please show me the reg that limits this aircraft to day VFR for non commercial operations. I believe the only thing required in this situation per the regs is a log book entry and a placard. Whomever led the owner of this aircraft to believe that the regs require additional "deactivation" beyond the failure of the combo CB/switch is the reg weenie/DB to which I'm referring. This aircraft should have been signed off with INOP placard and returned to service while the owner waits for the "experts" to track down the switch.

This type of attitude is an embarrassment. "We can't find the landing light switch for your plane, but we have managed to interpret a reg in such a way that requires a bunch of BS to return you plane to service without it." Leaves me feeling optimistic about GA...

[cliffy]

I'll try one last time for those who are challenged-

NO ONE told the owner the airplane was grounded.

NO ONE grounded the airplane with a log book write up.

THE OWNER has elected to not fly (GROUND) the airplane until the correct switch is found. 

IT'S HIS CHOICE TO DO THIS. CAN EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THIS?

You are reading way too much into this.

Yes the shop is picky about FARS. I am too.

If it's broken it has to be fixed OR if it flies it has to follow the INOP/DEACTIVATE regs. 

To just put an INOP tape across the switch is not enough in this case BECAUSE the switch has come apart internally. There is no guarantee that (because it is both a circuit breaker AND a switch and you can't just "pull the breaker to inop the switch and system) an internal short from vibration could not happen and possibly cause a fire on the panel. Therefore, I would have recommended (IF I HAD BEEN IN CHARGE AND HE WANTED TO FLY) that the switch be removed (SYSTEM DEACTIVATED)  and a log book entry made to denote same. In this case, that would have been the safest way to go had he wanted to fly.

I had nothing to do with the owner electing to not fly the airplane. The shop had nothing to do with the owner electing not to fly. 

IT WAS HIS CHOICE TO GROUND THE AIRPLANE.

 

BTW, the FED with the comment about the cigar lighter was absolutely correct. Technically it has to be noted in the logs with a removal weight comment BUT because it is under 1 pound change no new W&B sheet is needed. YES, it would be a CS violation or notice BUT it would be something that a Conformity Check for a 135 airplane would come under. Its considered a "Change"  to the original Type Certificate and should be accounted for. As was also noted, I'll bet not 1 in 50 airplanes out there are completely conforming. They can always nail you with something.

[carusoam]

In the event you want to contact the company directly...

http://www.sensata.com/klixon/circuit-breaker-aircraft.htm

I have hassled them trying to buy just the switch covers, to no avail...

They are a major automotive supplier as well.

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

In the event you want to contact the company directly...

http://www.sensata.com/klixon/circuit-breaker-aircraft.htm

I have hassled them trying to buy just the switch covers, to no avail...

On the web site they state:

The snap–on actuators are available on request in a variety of colors, styles and indication markings designed to provide a stylish console appearance to the panels of light aircraft.

[cliffy]

The shop contacted them directly that's where the $1100 and 12 weeks delivery came from,.

Lots of companies show the switch but none have any in stock

[Lood]

This is the reason why I never use anything in my airplane, which isn't critical or really necessary, at any time. I only use the landing light and strobes when I fly into busy airspace and controlled or busy airfields. When flying between the farms, there's no traffic for the next 100 miles, so no lights.

My philosophy around many mechanical things, is that they have a specific lifespan, depending on how much they are used. If I only use my landing light on every 3rd flight, it should last three times longer, compared to it being used during every take off and landing.

 

Probably not the best practice, but just imagine how much of an an issue this can become here in South Africa, not to mention the costs involved.

[testwest]

PM sent to Cliffy regarding my "For Sale, Parts" post.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I have one in my hangar, but I don't want to give it up. I think it is a 20 amp.

[Marauder]

I have one in my hangar, but I don't want to give it up. I think it is a 20 amp.

20 ampers are like the golden ticket at the Willy Wonka factory.

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[N201MKTurbo]

I know, I bought it on EBAY a few years ago for $5

[RobertGary1]

Again, all the switches of the same amp only have different P/N's because the label on the rocker is different. The rocker just snaps off. DON'T THROW THE OLD ONE AWAY with the switch.

 

-Robert

[cliffy]

Part found thanks to this forum !!    :-)  :-)

[furledd]

Was it the same part that's on ebay here:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mooney-Ldg-Light-circuit-breaker-930023-215-/131574199378?hash=item1ea26ef452&vxp=mtr

[cliffy]

Don't know I'd have to go to airport to find the Mooney P/N. Don't have it here. 

[testwest]

No, it is not. That switch on Ebay is an E-T-A landing light switch, Mooney went to that style in the 1982-83 time frame. The original search is for a G model, so the switch is a Klixon (Sensata) style.

[yvesg]

Folks, my mechanic just told me I need a replacement landing light/breaker switch. Cliffy, (or anyone) can you help me locate one that will not break the bank?

My bird is a 65C and the switch is the all metal lever type. (round)

Yves