What would you say?

[Marauder]

The airplanes are fine , and so are their owners....If you met Peter Garmin , you would hate all Mooney owners too !!!!!!!!! Help me Chris 1111

He is all yours Alan!

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[Shadrach]

I get the Cirrus owner stereo types. Its a newer company and the folks that are associated with them have been scrutinized heavily. I think they are fine airplanes. I am not a fan of the fuel tank design, but it will remain, as a redesign is akin to admitting liability for all of charred Cirri that have melted down over the years. I do think they attract new folks to GA that maybe previously would have passed. That's been good for GA even if some of the stand outs in the Cirrus community seem a bit douche baggy, there are a 100 more that are not. We have our own as well... As does every other make.

 

I can stereotype Beech (especially Bonanza) pilots...they often seem to carry themselves as though think that they (and their airplanes) are crème of the GA crop. Having been fortunate enough to ride in the back of a kerosene burner on someone else's dime, I know who the crème is and it's not anyone behind a recip (unless it has 12cyl or more).

Edited January 26, 2016 by Shadrach

[Alan Fox]

My name is Alan , and I am a Bonanzaholic............

[Shadrach]

I like them too, but I can remember flying an A36 many years ago and thinking "what's all the fuss"? 165kts@~15gph. They handle beautifully, but so do many other AC.

[Alan Fox]

Its the complete picture ....They fit so many missions ....also that was 165 indicated , take it up to 8K and its 175 plus...  Big roomy cabin , rugged gear , ease of maintenance....  I truly love the Mooneys that I have owned , But when I have owned both , the only reason I was flying the Mooney , was to save fuel costs....

[Andy95W]

Stereotypical B.S.

See Above...

I just completed my flight review with a Cirrus owner. He picked up a beautiful SR22 for what I paid for my Vintage Mooney. He stole it...He is a class act, just like his plane. I would trade him in a heartbeat. The remarks like you made reflect poorly on you...not on Cirrus Pilot/Owners.

I get the Cirrus owner stereo types. Its a newer company and the folks that are associated with them have been scrutinized heavily. I think they are fine airplanes. I am not a fan of the fuel tank design, but it will remain, as a redesign is akin to admitting liability for all of charred Cirri that have melted down over the years. I do think they attract new folks to GA that maybe previously would have passed. That's been good for GA even if some of the stand outs in the Cirrus community seem a bit douche baggy, there are a 100 more that are not. We have our own as well... As does every other make.

Yeah, I was generalizing and exaggerating. I do think they are tremendous airplanes that have invigorated GA in ways a tired old C-172 (or my 50 year old M20C) could never have. And yes, I do know Cirrus owners who aren't morons or douche bags.

But I stand by my assertion that their area at Oshkosh is annoying.

[Hank]

Relax, ya'll-- it sounds like he's dissing Cirrus Corp's annoying booth more than the owner's group. I only know one owner, a pretty sharp guy and a methodical pilot; and since I'm. It in the $500-800K range for a late model plane, I've never even noticed if there was a Cirrus booth at events I attend. But I did admire and sit in an Eliot Motors car at an airshow. (This was the guy in front of me.)

[ryoder]

Can't we all just get along

[Shadrach]

Its the complete picture ....They fit so many missions ....also that was 165 indicated , take it up to 8K and its 175 plus...  Big roomy cabin , rugged gear , ease of maintenance....  I truly love the Mooneys that I have owned , But when I have owned both , the only reason I was flying the Mooney , was to save fuel costs....

Negative. This A36 was a 165kt bird 7500ft.

[Alan Fox]

Tip tanks??

[Shadrach]

Nope. Stock 1977 model. Nice plane. 6 plc. Easily swallowed my mountain bike with little dissassembly. 165ktas.

[PTK]

It's not petty jealousy. It's annoyance. Walk around the Cirrus area at Oshkosh, you'll see what I mean. Between the snooty salespeople/staff, the loud music, and the fairly clueless customers, you'll start getting annoyed too. VERY different feeling than what you get at the Mooney area.

My wife called the Cirrus crowd "the Justin Biebers of the airplane community"- annoying punks you just wish would shut up and go away.

I like to give everybody the benefit of the doubt and not prejudge.

There are "annoying punks" in all crowds. I characterize them as immature. Fortunately they're not that many.

The trick is to ignore them and don't let them bother you. They'll go away.

[Danb]

Alan..I guess that's why there's vanilla and chocolate..I have more Bonanza buddies than Mooneys so I'm used to the sarcasm generally coming from them, my best friend has a nice Bo, on long trips I leave first so my wait for him isn't to long..since I'm a smaller guy my mooney fits me perfectly...I've considered and kinda still do getting a nice glass Baron..just for the extra engine..

[jlunseth]

Well, I think you did just the right thing Shad.  But I can see how this would happen.  Say the plane sat for a couple of weeks before the trip and the pilot started with 8 qts.  I don't know what the Cirrus capacity is but just for the sake of discussion lets say it 8 quarts, and the minimum safe amount is 5. 

 

They get in the plane, start it up, and right away they "lose" a qt. because that amount of oil that had drained into the sump is now distributed throughout the engine.  They still have 8 qts., but if you read the dipstick at that point it would say 7.

 

Now they fly approx. three hours, burning a quart an hour, then pull the dipstick.  It will say 4 qts., but in reality the engine is still at 5.  Then, being a careful pilot and trying to nurse the engine to TBO, the pilot puts in 4 qts until the dipstick says 8 again.  In reality the engine has 9, but that is what I would do if I were going to immediately continue my trip flying an engine that burns a qt. an hour.  Lets also say the guy knows what he is doing and knows that the compressions are at minimums on all the cylinders, and the oil burn rate has been slowly increasing to the current level rather than getting there all of a sudden.  The engine is indeed telling him something, it is telling him that it is old and tired.

 

It is also possible there is a bigger problem.  Once upon a time I was seeing a burn/loss rate like that in my 231 and the A&Ps were just telling me the "old and tired" thing.  In reality, I had that tiny piece of plastic in the quick drain which eventually became a big deal, and when it was cured the engine went from a quart an hour to a quart every oil change, and I fly enough that I change oil at 40-50 hours normally.  So knowing what I know now, I would not ever listen to the "old and tired" thing.  But then I do not know this guy's engine, I know my engine, and there certainly are engines that are old and tired and burn that much per hour.

 

There really isn't anything you can do except speak to the fellow pilot politely and give him your opinion.

[Ftlausa]

I think the original question posted is a great one.  Just a week ago I was faced with a similar dilemma.  I saw a newer pilot loading four "non FAA standard" adults into a rental Grumman Tiger I used to fly.  There was no way he was not over gross and it was a very hot day in South Florida and the fuel truck was pulling up to the plane for a top off.  I was concerned enough that I wanted to say something, but I did not know the pilot.  After driving for a few minutes and pondering the unwitting passengers' potential fate, I call the airplane owner and commented that I had hoped the pilot had done a W&B.  The owner said he would call the pilot and find out.  Apparently noting bad occurred, but I would have felt terrible if they had had an incident and I had not said something.    

[peevee]

I think the original question posted is a great one.  Just a week ago I was faced with a similar dilemma.  I saw a newer pilot loading four "non FAA standard" adults into a rental Grumman Tiger I used to fly.  There was no way he was not over gross and it was a very hot day in South Florida and the fuel truck was pulling up to the plane for a top off.  I was concerned enough that I wanted to say something, but I did not know the pilot.  After driving for a few minutes and pondering the unwitting passengers' potential fate, I call the airplane owner and commented that I had hoped the pilot had done a W&B.  The owner said he would call the pilot and find out.  Apparently noting bad occurred, but I would have felt terrible if they had had an incident and I had not said something.    

I like to think we look out for each other, but it's sometimes hard to take advice from a stranger, even good advice.

[Mcstealth]

This is why I love being on the Forum. I learn, get entertained, and get to dream at the same time.

I myself being the rookie that I am, I probably would not have spoke up. I would hope the pilot understands that there is a serious problem, but it is not my place to judge. I just am not experienced enough. Now, that said, if I saw someone taxi with a flat tire, yes, I most likely would say something. " you got a flat tire? Nope, the other three swelled right up"

[Shadrach]

^^^^  Other 3???  What kind of 4 wheeler taxis?

[Hank]

Relax, Ross, he's quoting Bill Engvall. He just left out the "Heeeere's your sign" part. 

[Shadrach]

I was just curious! If I relaxed much more, I'd be asleep...

[bonal]

zzzzzzzzzzz

[bonal]

I know if I was about to do something stupid or if I just was unaware of a condition that could prove dangerous I know I would appreciate it being pointed out no matter what the experience level of he observer.