Mooney M20E or F

[aerobat95]

Quote: flight2000

Well, if I find out I'm moving to Italy/Europe in about six months, there'll be a nice E model on the market.  Can't stand the thought of her sitting in a cold hanger, pickled for that length of time and I'm too anal to let someone use her for free.  Bad enough I'm in Saudi for the next 5 months home for 30 days on mid tour and then back for for the remaining 5 months. 

I flight plan for 160 kts true and see 10.5 gallons per hour burn at 7,000 ft.  Before anyone jumps my case, this was verified via GPS groundspeeds, so my systems are fine and not reading fast...  

Brian

[Immelman]

I have a 66E. Speeds anywhere from 140 to 150 knots depending on weight, altitude, and temperature. Below gross (solo full fuel or 2 people partial fuel) I will see 150 knots TAS consistently at about 6-8K density altitude, full throttle, 2500 RPM. Only speed mod is the LASAR cowl closure.... and it could be faster, as I am slightly out of rig and have a couple extra anntenae and inop beacon I want to remove from the airplane. At these altitudes I burn about 10.5gph to get that speed.

However, load it up to max gross weight and/or fly on a really hot day and I will see 140 knots at best.

If the winds are with you, I like to take the airplane up high.. the other day I was solo and despite the warm atmosphere climbed up to 13.5 where I saw a consistent 140KTAS and 8gph. Economically speaking, with any tailwind, that is a lot more bang for your avgas buck if you're going somewhere far away than getting the last 10 knots out of it down low. On the other hand, I also think this is a testament to the flexibility of a Mooney and is but another reason why I like it.

As others have said, the difference between the E and F is legroom, and possibly larger tanks/gross weight increase.

[Magnum]

Quote: flight2000

Well, if I find out I'm moving to Italy/Europe in about six months, there'll be a nice E model on the market.  Can't stand the thought of her sitting in a cold hanger, pickled for that length of time and I'm too anal to let someone use her for free.  Bad enough I'm in Saudi for the next 5 months home for 30 days on mid tour and then back for for the remaining 5 months. 

I flight plan for 160 kts true and see 10.5 gallons per hour burn at 7,000 ft.  Before anyone jumps my case, this was verified via GPS groundspeeds, so my systems are fine and not reading fast...  

Brian

[KLRDMD]

Quote: Lood

I haven't flown in a E model, but from what I've read, the F has a higher usefull load than the E model. IIRC, this is used up by 10 gal more fuel and the extra airfame weight, though. So, you can't really load more in the F but you do have 10 gal of extra fuel, which equates to roughly one hour more flying time. 

[Ron McBride]

I have a 69 F.  I like the throttle quadrant and elec gear and flaps. To each his or her own.  The electric gear has an AD note on it for lubing and inspection. With over 4000 hours on the plane, the log books do not show any failures and I had to replace the gears at about 4100 hrs. I put the 40:1's in it and am very happy.

I average about 140 Knots TAS with mine. It is completely stock.

Next week I have a 1275 Knot trip to make, I can do this in about 9 hours and 85 to 90 gals of fuel. I can make it with just one stop, If I had an E I could not make this trip without long range tanks. (Jonathon Paul). I have flown as long as 5 1/2 hours and still had 12 gals on board. 

When I  was looking at Mooney's, I took a C model for a test flight, the owner had a pilot fly and he sat in back, he did not look comfortable.  In my F, I have only once had an adult in the back seat, he said it was comfortable.  It is usually just me, sometines the wife. 

My empty weight is 1682# and my useful load is 1058#.

Hope this helps.  Good luck in your search.

Ron

[flight2000]

Quote: aerobat95

 

 Brian, Thanks for the input.  Great looking plane as well.  Love the panel and paint.  So you are overseas.... I am as well...for a short deployment.  I fly the KC-135 and flying just about every day out here....  I have about another month and a half then I go back.  Stationed in Wichita KS.  So did you plan on doing the paint and panel when you bought it or what that an after thought?

Ray

 

[MB_M20F]

My F model has a few speed mods (including a PowerFlow exhaust, but not yet a 201 windshield) and cruises at 151 KTAS at 8500 ft or 148 KTAS at 11500 ft. At 14500 ft I get 142 KTAS. Fuel flow is just over 9 gph (about 9.2) at 8500 ft and 8.5 gph at 11500 ft. 

M

[aerobat95]

I didnt realize a F model could get near the 150's.  Thats not to bad.  What speed mods do you have?  I was looking at this TN F model that looked pretty good.  Just not sure if I want to go with a turbo.  I dont want a mx hog.  Plus I am not sure what the benifit would be real world at 12K feet. 

[aerobat95]

here is a link to the ad I was talking about....

 

http://www.aest-sales.com/N9591M.html

-Ray

[aschardt]

aerobat,

I have a 67 F model with a two blade prop, 201 windshield, and cowl closure mod and the RayJay turbo normalizer.  I  pretty consistantly get 145 kts avg speeds with two on board, full fuel, 5500 ft., and no turbo.  I'll burn ROP around 10.5 -7 GPH.  At 12,500 I'll burn around 13.5 GPH with the turbo normalizing to 27 inches and see 160 - 165 kts.   Personally I love having the turbo, only use it 10% of the time, but when you want to go, it's there and it's great to take over mountains. 

I see your just south of Wichita, if you want to fly mine, just give me a call.  I'm only about an hour away!  -Aaron

[scottfromiowa]

KCID-KRAC today with wife and 19/17 year old kids.  30 gallens of fuel.  170 knots on GPS@7500 on trip up and 130 knots @4500 on return.  Yes an E Model CAN hold four (we total 910 pounds w/fuel) easily on a couple of hours flight. 5'5" and 5'3" in the back seat though...

KRAC has a querry a couple hundred yards off the end of 22...Don't want to land short there.  I think I saw a couple of Beech's when we flew over:<)  (just thought I'd pick on brand B instead of my "F" brothers...)

[ATB]

This plane has been mentioned a few times and contnues to stay on the market.  Has anyone taken a serious look and care to share what, if any, problems it might have?  I seem to recall it may have been sitting without much use for the recent past.

Quote: aerobat95

here is a link to the ad I was talking about....

 

http://www.aest-sales.com/N9591M.html

-Ray

[MB_M20F]

Quote: aerobat95

I didnt realize a F model could get near the 150's.  Thats not to bad.  What speed mods do you have?  I was looking at this TN F model that looked pretty good.  Just not sure if I want to go with a turbo.  I dont want a mx hog.  Plus I am not sure what the benifit would be real world at 12K feet. 

[flight2000]

Quote: MB_M20F

I am planning on getting a 201-style windshield (once SWTA gets some glass).

[MB_M20F]

Yeah, I'll probably end up biting the bullet and having LASAR do mine as well. It's just sooo much more expensive...

[flight2000]

You bring up a good point, I wonder what the difference is between the two mods given the price gap.  I haven't seen the SWTA 201 windshield mod, but I've seen the one piece windshield and can understand the difference there.

Brian

[eaglebkh]

I have an 'E' and have carried 4 adults (averaging 180 lbs) a few times before and it was crowded.  But think about this...

After 720 lbs of people and 40 lbs of luggage, that leaves 160 lbs for fuel (920 lbs useful).  With my 1hr IFR reserve, that leaves a range of about 1.6 hours.

Is it reasonable to travel for 1.6 hours with knees against the backrest?  For my passengers, yes.  For yours???

Is it worth the extra cost and speed reduction of the F to make that 1.6 hr trip more comfortable?  For me, no.  For you???

This is of course a thought exersice between an E and F that have the same useful load, for whatever reason.

For 3 people, I basically gain back the full range of my E and the back seat occupant has plenty of room.  No advantage to the F in this situation, in my opinion.

[DaV8or]

Quote: flight2000

Although, I'm still waiting for the 201 style wing tips to be produced again.  Go firgure.

Brian

[KLRDMD]

Quote: eaglebkh

I don't believe the F adds much if any useful load, but I could be wrong - please correct if so.

[DaV8or]

Quote: flight2000

You bring up a good point, I wonder what the difference is between the two mods given the price gap.  I haven't seen the SWTA 201 windshield mod, but I've seen the one piece windshield and can understand the difference there.

Brian

[eaglebkh]

Quote: KLRDMD

In my post of August 13, in this very thread I outlined the differences. The F model has 150 lb more useful load than the E model.

[KSMooniac]

That TN F looks nice, but has a panel full of unsupported hardware that would worry me...and thus I think it is priced a little too high because of that.  Running it through Jimmy Garrison's pre-201 valuation spreadsheet would be better than using their V-REF guess.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: KSMooniac

That TN F looks nice, but has a panel full of unsupported hardware that would worry me...and thus I think it is priced a little too high because of that.  Running it through Jimmy Garrison's pre-201 valuation spreadsheet would be better than using their V-REF guess.

[KSMooniac]

Quote: KLRDMD

Jimmy almost always comes up with a higher value than vRef.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: KSMooniac

Jimmy almost always comes up with a higher value than vRef.