KSMooniac Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I've been trying to make my home office functional lately, and came across a pile of things-to-be-filed someday last night. Attached are the original bill of sale and invoice for my plane, to Willmar in 1977! There probably aren't that many original owners on here, so it might be very interesting for everyone to see what they look like. (I'm the third owner of My Honey) I took my plane to Willmar for tank work in 2008 and arrived after hours. The next morning, Bruce Jaeger arrived for work and got excited when he saw her... he remembered selling her new! When I got there later that morning, he took up to the deep storage area, and rifled through a filing cabinet for a couple of minutes before finding the original file. He gave me these papers to add to the plane records, which is why I have them now. I'd be curious for someone to run the inflation-adjusted number and see if it gets near 500 AMU in 2015. My brother remembers collecting some Mooney brochures circa 1987 and says a J was ~ 100 AMU at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Interesting to note that almost half of the value was avionics. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 $181,321.81 in 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 $181,321.81 in 2014 That makes me cry just a little bit... a "normal" upper-middle class family could realistically dream about buying a new plane at that price today IMO. 3X that amount...notsomuch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Interesting to note that almost half of the value was avionics. Clarence I get $11k for the avionics and autopilot, about 25%. I didn't include the basic instruments in that figure. Far cry from today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcstealth Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 How much of the original equipment is still in the plane? DF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I have the original paperwork for my 67F. I think is says $16,000 with all options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schule Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Anyone from the late '80s able to compare new aircraft costs to autos? Average new trucks now are now, maybe $50k, what was an average truck price in '87? Has the average price of a truck gone up 700%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 How much of the original equipment is still in the plane? DF Not much! The heated pitot, cabin speaker, radio master switch, VSI, strobes. None of the avionics or autopilot are still there, nor the paint and interior (thankfully). The encoding altimeter is there, but doesn't encode any longer. Control wheels are still there, now upgraded with leather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I purchased my J new in 1988 from Weber via Kerrville for $110,000.......far cry from $700-800K now....Jeez my 2005 Bravo GX was $ 472,000...what the hell has happened to our sport and livelihood for some..eg.. Bought 1977 Cherokee for $15,000 sold it in a year for $17,500 to buy the J for $ 110,000 in 1988 sold in 2005 for $150,000..I thought this is awesome making money and flying for free...then this Bravo 2005 for $ 470+ and may not be able to get $ 300,000 for it..who the hell screwed up our industry...????all profits until 2005 now all losses.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Sorry guys I just had to leave to cry and throw up.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Dan, you trying to turn this into another "Little Timmy wants to know" thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'd be willing to bet that the liability portion as a percentage on that J is a whole bunch smaller the portion on a new Mooney today. Who wrecked the industry? Trial lawyers and stupid juries! Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Tom really no..just wondering how the industry could free fall this fast..the last thing I want is another Tommy...I try to stay out of politics..keep friends longer that way....my voice is my private vote unfortunately... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 70’s inflation masked the reality of what was going on. Stuff magically was worth more after wearing in... 80's automobiles ('82 Ford Escort) could be bought with man. trans., no radio, no A/C for $5k. $6k could get a mini pick-up. Graduating in 1987...4 years of engineering school cost about $60k all in, books, dorm, food, etc... A good engineering job paid $30k that year. For comparison... In 2015...1 year at the same school $60k. Internet Research indicates the same engineer graduating this year would be paid $65k. If you go Engineering, there probably won't be a new plane in the plan early on. Live in mom's house. Eat mom's groceries. Don't spend any money on anything else. It could be done. Just not fun... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryoder Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I was looking at new Cirrus prices this morning and they want ungodly amounts for basic options like 25k for an appearance package with a polished spinner, dual paint colors, recognition lights, and leather interior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I purchased my J new in 1988 from Weber via Kerrville for $110,000.......far cry from $700-800K now....Jeez my 2005 Bravo GX was $ 472,000...what the hell has happened to our sport and livelihood for some..eg.. Bought 1977 Cherokee for $15,000 sold it in a year for $17,500 to buy the J for $ 110,000 in 1988 sold in 2005 for $150,000..I thought this is awesome making money and flying for free...then this Bravo 2005 for $ 470+ and may not be able to get $ 300,000 for it..who the hell screwed up our industry...????all profits until 2005 now all losses.. Well, I don't want to make you cry anymore, but I paid $29,000 in 1991 for my F with a new set of bladders tossed in from the pre-buy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 The price of a new 172 tracked pretty much 1:1 with an average new-hiring engineering salary until the late 70's, and then the price of aircraft (er, liability) started to violently diverge from the previous slope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBill Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 According to the Dollar Times website: $46,000.00 in 1977 had the same buying power as $185,590.24 in 2015. Annual inflation over this period was 3.74%. What is not included is the added cost of the liability that was added to aircraft by the courts and lawyers(and juries) most of which was uncalled for but still remains an issue. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Anthony you pretty much nailed it, I'm a CPA. And am astounded by the vast differences in salaries in most fields over the last ten yrs. seriously glad not to be coming out of college in this day and age along with the huge debt incurred and can't afford to leave home. In our days we could go to college work for money at the same time and basically be able to start out lives and get married etc...seems that ..that way is gone unless your lucky enough to have parents to foot the fees, our did not realize how important education was..many of our parents went to seventh or eight grade worked at the factory...all was good.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBill Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 70’s inflation masked the reality of what was going on. Stuff magically was worth more after wearing in... 80's automobiles ('82 Ford Escort) could be bought with man. trans., no radio, no A/C for $5k. $6k could get a mini pick-up. Graduating in 1987...4 years of engineering school cost about $60k all in, books, dorm, food, etc... A good engineering job paid $30k that year. For comparison... In 2015...1 year at the same school $60k. Internet Research indicates the same engineer graduating this year would be paid $65k. If you go Engineering, there probably won't be a new plane in the plan early on. Live in mom's house. Eat mom's groceries. Don't spend any money on anything else. It could be done. Just not fun... Best regards, -a- Got my license in 1970. Got my engineering degree in 1971 and made $10.5K/ year (highest paid in the class). Bought my first airplane (used) in 2003! after all kids were out of college). It would have been different if the wife would fly with me but I am OK with they way things worked out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Dr bill and that's why engineers are smarter than accts, I also started in 1971 also but at a whopping 6 grand a yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I can remember when I got out of college the home interest rate and unemployment rate where I lived (Buffalo) were the same... 20.9% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Does anyone here actually believe that the Consumer Price Index really represents the true rate of inflation? Just curious. What about the unemployment rate? No, and heck no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hmmmmm... Currently... According to CNBC and bankrate.com... Unemployment <5% Mortgage <5%. (30 yr, fixed) The Federal Reserve appears to have better knowledge/control today, than they did at anytime in the last century... Wait to see what the drop in fuel price does to airplane prices... More affordable flying for everybody...! The opposite effect of the oil embargo? Consider this recreational finance. I have no background related to this topic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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