I flew into KMIA this past weekend -- a couple questions for the pros

[FloridaMan]

I flew into KMIA this past weekend to go to the boat show. It was a fun trip. The Everglades do not look like a good place to have an engine failure. My biggest fear departing at night in the darkness was having wake from a departing jet causing an upset and me not being able to recover in the absence of good visual references outside the airplane. 

 

On arrival, the controller mentioned something about "west." It didn't sound like an arrival instruction and we were landing 26R; I didn't have time to get clarification as we then immediately got a visual to 26R. My best guess is that they were telling us that we would be landing in a westbound direction, but I'd never heard the instruction before and it was a busy arrival. 

 

We then got the MIAMI THREE departure/WINCO transition on departure. I declined due to not having RADAR onboard, but the plate confused me a little. Since I was able to decline the departure due to a technicality I didn't have a chance to get clarification. The way that I read the plate was that you are to fly the assigned heading until intercepting the DHP 322 radial, and then continuing to WINCO and then as cleared. Is that right? 

[AndyFromCB]

I flew into KMIA this past weekend to go to the boat show. It was a fun trip. The Everglades do not look like a good place to have an engine failure. My biggest fear departing at night in the darkness was having wake from a departing jet causing an upset and me not being able to recover in the absence of good visual references outside the airplane. 

 

On arrival, the controller mentioned something about "west." It didn't sound like an arrival instruction and we were landing 26R; I didn't have time to get clarification as we then immediately got a visual to 26R. My best guess is that they were telling us that we would be landing in a westbound direction, but I'd never heard the instruction before and it was a busy arrival. 

 

We then got the MIAMI THREE departure/WINCO transition on departure. I declined due to not having RADAR onboard, but the plate confused me a little. Since I was able to decline the departure due to a technicality I didn't have a chance to get clarification. The way that I read the plate was that you are to fly the assigned heading until intercepting the DHP 322 radial, and then continuing to WINCO and then as cleared. Is that right? 

 

RADAR required is for the controllers, meaning the terminal radar has to be functioning.

 

But yes, you interpretation is correct. Usually, there will be some additional vectoring from controllers to get you to intercept the radial. Also, it never hurts to ask in a few minutes for DIRECT to destination. Often times you'll get it. I do that all the time in Denver. Always get departure procedure, don't remember ever having flown all the way to HUGO or whatever the VOR is.

[jetdriven]

You are to fly the assigned heading for radar vectors to join your transition IE, do not leave the assigned heading until receiving a vector or a clearance to a fix.

[FloridaMan]

RADAR required is for the controllers, meaning the terminal radar has to be functioning.

 

Doh! It looks I revealed myself as a rank amateur on that one. With the exception of VGT, I've never been issued a SID and as a student there wasn't much emphasis placed on them. 

 

Now, what was that weird "west" arrival instruction about? There's not a STAR that sounds anything like it. 

[Marauder]

Doh! It looks I revealed myself as a rank amateur on that one. With the exception of VGT, I've never been issued a SID and as a student there wasn't much emphasis placed on them. 

 

Now, what was that weird "west" arrival instruction about? There's not a STAR that sounds anything like it. 

 

There is an arrival procedure that uses Key West's VORTAC as a transition. Could you have missed the "key" part?

[Flymu2]

it never hurts to ask in a few minutes for DIRECT to destination. Often times you'll get it. I do that all the time in Denver. Always get departure procedure, don't remember ever having flown all the way to HUGO or whatever the VOR is.

Asking for direct may work in Denver, but it will never work in South Florida or New York. You will almost always fly the full procedure, even when it's not busy. If it is busy and you don't sound and act like you know what you're doing you'll get yelled at, or worse.

[Mooneymite]

Most of the RNAV arrivals will feed either an east, or west operation at MIA. The controller will often say "landing east", or "landing west", so arrivals don't go down the wrong transition.

In most cases, we know long before by copying ATIS which way the operation is, but it is a big deal so the controllers make sure you know. Also very important if the airport has just changed from one operation to the other.

[FloridaMan]

Most of the RNAV arrivals will feed either an east, or west operation at MIA. The controller will often say "landing east", or "landing west", so arrivals don't go down the wrong transition.

In most cases, we know long before by copying ATIS which way the operation is, but it is a big deal so the controllers make sure you know. Also very important if the airport has just changed from one operation to the other.

 

That sounds like the answer that I was looking for. I knew I'd be landing west, but I'd never heard such an instruction. I found the Miami controllers to be pretty good that day. I'm guessing that being english proficient and comfortable talking to controllers on an IFR plan gets you a little more courtesy. 

 

I once heard a Bonanza pilot getting chewed out for being a half mile off of a radial coming into NYC. He was on an IFR plan and there were some dense, relatively unpleasant low lying clouds and he was skirting around them. 

[1964-M20E]

I have never flown an arrival or departure procedure.  I always file No SIDS no STARS though sometimes ATC will assign one to me I simply tell them negative on the XXX procedure will take vectors to final or on departure.  I have reviewed the procedures to places where I usually fly and will try to incorporate some of the fixes into my filed flight plan to help out.  It appears to me that the procedures are generally set up for big iron or higher flying aircraft.

[ArtVandelay]

I have never flown an arrival or departure procedure. I always file No SIDS no STARS though sometimes ATC will assign one to me I simply tell them negative on the XXX procedure will take vectors to final or on departure. I have reviewed the procedures to places where I usually fly and will try to incorporate some of the fixes into my filed flight plan to help out. It appears to me that the procedures are generally set up for big iron or higher flying aircraft.

Why the objection, they are normally just predefined vectors and climb requirements are modest?

[Mooneymite]

Why the objection, they are normally just predefined vectors and climb requirements are modest?

 

Ha!

 

Generally, SIDS and STARS=high gas prices.

 

I prefer the smaller airports where the approach clearance starts with, "Report airport in sight."  

[N9453V]

Whenever I flew into MIA, I was always assigned a SID but never ended up flying it since I was vectored.

 

-Andrew

[Bob_Belville]

SIDs can be  important in the event of (temporary?) lost of communication. You know what to do and ATC knows what you're going to do. Compare it to the routine take off clearance "turn to 360, climb to 2000, expect 7000 in 10 minutes." If there's no one there when you switch to departure freq you know what to do while you figure out comm issue.  

[midlifeflyer]

Why the objection, they are normally just predefined vectors and climb requirements are modest?

He apparently likes to copy long clearances rather than have a picture of it.

 

A SID and A STAR are shorthand for the convenience of both us and ATC. I never quire understood the hesitation to accept them. 

[Cruiser]

Unless you are coming in from high up altitudes (in the teens or higher) it is highly unlikely you will get a STAR.

 

SIDs on the other hand are almost routine for departure from larger airports. Again, if you are NOT going into the teens or higher, rarely will you even get to execute the SID beyond radar vectors on departure even if you accept it.

[Cruiser]

the MIAMI THREE departure/WINCO transition, (MIA3.WINCO) says:

 

Takeoff All Rwys: Climb on assigned heading for radar vectors to assigned transition.

(This means to takeoff, fly runway heading until given a vector)

Maintain 5000' or assigned lower altitude.

(Easy enough)

Expect filed altitude ten (10) minutes after departure

(pretty standard also)

 

WINCO Transition: From over DHP VORTAC via DHP R-322 to WINCO intersection.

(since the DHP VORTAC is only a couple of miles west of the field, you would get a vector to the VOR and then exit on the 322 radial which is also the V97-521 airway. Depending on your destination, you probably would never make it all the way to WINCO before being put on your course direct to your next waypoint.)

 

There is other information on the SID you would need to know. 

Departure minimums. In addition to ceiling and visibility, there are climb gradients depending on runway. You must be sure your airplane's climb rate is capable. 

Fequencies: ATIS, GND, CLNC DEL, for the WINCO transition the departure freq is 119.45

and Special instructions: "Unless otherwise assigned, use the departure frequency depicted associated with the transition in clearance.

That's pretty much it.

[FloridaMan]

the MIAMI THREE departure/WINCO transition, (MIA3.WINCO) says:

 

Takeoff All Rwys: Climb on assigned heading for radar vectors to assigned transition.

(This means to takeoff, fly runway heading until given a vector)

Maintain 5000' or assigned lower altitude.

(Easy enough)

Expect filed altitude ten (10) minutes after departure

(pretty standard also)

 

WINCO Transition: From over DHP VORTAC via DHP R-322 to WINCO intersection.

(since the DHP VORTAC is only a couple of miles west of the field, you would get a vector to the VOR and then exit on the 322 radial which is also the V97-521 airway. Depending on your destination, you probably would never make it all the way to WINCO before being put on your course direct to your next waypoint.)

 

There is other information on the SID you would need to know. 

Departure minimums. In addition to ceiling and visibility, there are climb gradients depending on runway. You must be sure your airplane's climb rate is capable. 

Fequencies: ATIS, GND, CLNC DEL, for the WINCO transition the departure freq is 119.45

and Special instructions: "Unless otherwise assigned, use the departure frequency depicted associated with the transition in clearance.

That's pretty much it.

 

This is what confused me about the assignment. If you look at the plate, the DHP VOR is just southwest of runway 26R, when departing 26R and flying to that VOR would have you cross the departure end of three other runways. 

[midlifeflyer]

This is what confused me about the assignment. If you look at the plate, the DHP VOR is just southwest of runway 26R, when departing 26R and flying to that VOR would have you cross the departure end of three other runways. 

 

A SID that involves expected vectors also needs to tell you what to do in the case of communication failure or other need for non-vector navigation. The MIAMI 3 WINCO Transition SID is vectors to the transition. But if there is a comm failure you need some way to get there with self-navigation. Forget GPS and recall the service volume of VORs.

 

Looking at the en route chart, doesn't DHP to WINCO make a lot of sense for that?

[Mooneymite]

After takeoff, I've rarely been sent directly to DHP.....always given a heading to either intercept the radial to WINCO, or just direct WINCO.

 

Probably because my plane is so fast....