Flying new-to-me M20J from KCHS to KBOI next weekend

[N201MKTurbo]

Mooneys are compleatly capable of making your trip wothout a problem. Just make sure the clouds are high enough and the wind isn't too strong, it'll take all the fun out of it.

If the weather cooperates you could make it in one long day. Or two easy days.

[bonal]

I have been giving this some thought and this is what my humble opinion is and it's only worth 2 pennies. don't do it alone I doubt you even can when you consider insurance requirements. Find a CFI with Mooney time make transportation arrangements and have a safe and fun learning experience.

No matter what best of luck we are all looking forward to the tail.

[charlesual]

Guessing there's a trade off between rudder size and speed in the design process.

On landing, I'd say about 11 knots crosswind is the point I'm full rudder slip to keep the longitudinal axis aligned with the centerline which can the be a setup for a bit of a veer when the nose wheel makes contact with the hard surface because the nose wheel follows rudder movement. Also remember as you transition from a crab to a slip that the increased drag requires a higher power setting then a crab. Not a bad idea to carry a little more speed to account for gusts and the higher stall speed of a slip which can also be a setup for a porpuss if you have excess speed during touchdown. If you haven't heard it already, porpussing is the biggest cause for catching a prop. On Mooney's. That would be a very bad day indeed.

Bottom line, crosswind technique should be done till you're blue in the face with someone that knows Mooney's.

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[BigTex]

I really don't think Mooney's are especially difficult to land in a crosswind situation.  On the contrary I think they handle crosswinds quite nicely.  Even mine that doesn't have the full length rudder handle pretty gusty 15 kt crosswinds without too much effort.  Any one that went to last years MAPA conference had to deal with some above average crosswinds.  Everyone landed without much discussion other than "no big deal."

 

You want to see a plane that you have to work at it when you're faced with a 15 kt crosswind is a Champ or Cub.  Those will require good technique to land them.

[Bob_Belville]

I really don't think Mooney's are especially difficult to land in a crosswind situation.  On the contrary I think they handle crosswinds quite nicely.  Even mine that doesn't have the full length rudder handle pretty gusty 15 kt crosswinds without too much effort.  Any one that went to last years MAPA conference had to deal with some above average crosswinds.  Everyone landed without much discussion other than "no big deal."

 

You want to see a plane that you have to work at it when you're faced with a 15 kt crosswind is a Champ or Cub.  Those will require good technique to land them.

I agree completely. I landed with a nominal 20+ mph crosswind at KERV for the MAPA get together last April. I suspect folks who operate in that part of the country would not do much flying if they were restricted to 11 mph cross winds.

[Will W]

If you want some instruction, you can come on down to FMY to the Mooney Safety Foundation February 6-8. It's in the high 60s low 70s there and a beach to boot.

[gsxrpilot]

My 5 hours of insurance mandated Mooney instruction didn't mention cross winds at all. And in the following 110 hours, I've found it's a non issue.  I'm guessing that the slippery shape combined with no flap landings actually make it fairly easy to land in a cross wind.  

 

If you watch the Mooney Caravan arrival at OSH 2014, you'll see 35 Mooney's landing in very strong and gusty cross winds. It's on youtube, just search for it.

 

YMMV.

[charlesual]

A 20 knot crossword done incorrectly is definitely more then a non issue. For instance, if you land in a crab because you run out of rudder you put a side load on your main gear. I don't want to be an alarmist but this excerpt from mooney mart concerning gear rigging is relevant to this conversation.

QUESTION) Does the Mooney landing gear require special maintenance?

ANSWER) Yes to a point. They do require that no one messes them up with bad adjustments concerning the pre-load adjustments. Unfortunately, far too many Mooneys we see have been subject of just that; improper pre-load adjustments and maintenance by shops which do not have the education and/or proper rigging tools.. This can be catastrophic and cause a gear collapse, no question. Also, few shops can recognize the need for shims in certain nose gear wear areas as well as diagnose out of tolerance bungies. This means that many times the gear is left to go too long and then when someone looks at it who knows what he is doing, it is too late and costly parts have to be replaced. Actually, if lubricated about twice a year (which the owner can do), the average Mooney gear can go years w/out any other maintenance or parts replacement whatsoever.

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[carusoam]

You guys (Charles) are having trouble with your auto spell check...

Doing Crosswords while flying final, would be a real challenge...

Best regards,

-a-

[bonal]

I normally put down my crossword as part of my GUMPS-C once clear of the runway I can get back with it 6 across starts with M?

[FloridaMan]

I recommend finding an experienced Mooney pilot to go with you who flies in the midwest/northwest of the country. The eastern part of your trip is pretty easy as long as you stay VMC.  

 

It's a new airplane to you. I'd plan my first stop to be 2-3 hours, max, to verify that your fuel burn is as expected. Keep in mind that it may seem *slightly* high because of climb out. It's also a good idea to do your best to stop at airports with reputable shops that aren't terribly far from commercial hubs. 

 

I'm not sure what your routing is, but my most terrifying experience flying was flying over the high desert at 11,000 FT at around noon. I hit a spot of severe clear air turbulence that put me on an invisible roller coaster. There was a moderate turbulence airmet for the area and the winds were around 40kts. There wasn't much turbulence before or after I hit that nasty spot. Ever since then I have treated areas with high winds and mountains with great caution. Fortunately that's only about 15 seconds of nearly 1000 hours of flying. 

[BoiseMooney]

First, thanks to everyone for all the amazing feedback and advice.  I couldn’t be happier that I found the mooneyspace brain trust!

 

So, yes, I’ll only be flying during daylight hours.  Plan is to do it in two days – it’s about 15 hours total flying, so that should work out pretty easily – and of course I have an extra two days if we need it.

 

Also, planning to stay south at least until Colorado and will either fly north through Colorado and then west over southern Wyoming (along I80) or flying north through Utah.

 

I’ve found a Mooney owner CFII (and Air Force C17 pilot) to do the flight with me, so I’m really looking forward to that experience.  Weather permitting, the plan is to spend Friday working locally in the CHS area on transition basics (landings, airspeed/energy management, etc).  We’ll start the journey at sunrise on Saturday.

 

I’ve made a log of all the various airmanship challenges that everyone here has pointed out and will be sure to work on those with the instructor.

 

With respect to mountain flying, the good news there is that’s what I’m used to – mountain waves, down/up drafts, etc are all in my regular flying routine now.

 

Lastly, I’m adding the crossword to my GUMPS check, though that may require a few extra circuits in the hold.  

 

Thanks everyone!  I’ll post pics and share details along the way.  

[charlesual]

Sounds like a great plan! Good job. Fair sky's.

Charlie

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[FlyDave]

I like the way you're stacking the deck!

Have a fun flight and definitely let us know how the flight progresses.

[bonal]

Now your talking,  I hope every thing works out...

[BoiseMooney]

I posted over in the Modern Mooney forum about the fuel leak, so the flight is delayed until after I figure out what to do.  For the interested:

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/14341-bladders-or-patchstripreseal-sorry-another-thread-on-this-need-advice/

[garytex]

Taking the CFI is the right thing to do. You'll be flying around behind the airplane for about 20 hours. it took me about 50 but you are young and have the strength of 10 because your heart is pure so you'll be done in 20. :-)

I land on a lot of rough strips so resealing tanks would be insane for me because the jiggling would be breaking the seals all the time. I have bladders that are 20 something years old they never give me a lick of problem I love them.

[BoiseMooney]

So, just wanted to give everyone an update.  I doubt any of you will be surprised to hear that the patch job on the leaky left tank was unsuccessful.  I have no doubt Joey Cole did what he could – he finished the job on Wednesday, the previous owner flew the plane back to CHS on Thursday and I closed on the sale with Joey’s seal of approval and a fresh annual.  Friday, I did some local flying with the instructor and at the end of a couple hours of transition work, we topped the tanks off for our Saturday departure towards BOI.  Saturday morning we arrived at the aircraft to a STRONG fuel smell in the cockpit and discovered the floor in the back seat was damp with avgas.  UGH!  Needless to say, we didn’t even start up.  It seems most of the GA world is shut down over the weekend, so we were dead in the water.  We did defuel some from the left tank, so it was down about 8 gallons from full.  Today, I checked in on the plane after sitting for 24 hours and the dampness is gone and strong smell as dissipated – it is not just a latent odor not terribly different from what I’m used to in other GA aircraft.  Joey had indicated the leak was in the outer fuel bay and was most pronounced with full tanks, so this seems consistent with the symptoms this weekend.  Unfortunately, due to my schedule, I have to fly home today and will regroup tomorrow with Joey and the local maintenance shop at CHS.  The FBO will tow the plane over to the maint shop and we’ll go from there.  There you have it!  My first weekend of airplane ownership; I expect this is just the beginning. 

[ArtVandelay]

Fly it down to Tampa to have a complete tank reseal for $1922.

See thread over in Vintage forum

[bonal]

Been there and done that, I feel your frustration get things taken care of be patient when it's all behind you , you will know that it was worth it. But I really know how you feel.

[Marauder]

So, just wanted to give everyone an update. I doubt any of you will be surprised to hear that the patch job on the leaky left tank was unsuccessful. I have no doubt Joey Cole did what he could – he finished the job on Wednesday, the previous owner flew the plane back to CHS on Thursday and I closed on the sale with Joey’s seal of approval and a fresh annual. Friday, I did some local flying with the instructor and at the end of a couple hours of transition work, we topped the tanks off for our Saturday departure towards BOI. Saturday morning we arrived at the aircraft to a STRONG fuel smell in the cockpit and discovered the floor in the back seat was damp with avgas. UGH! Needless to say, we didn’t even start up. It seems most of the GA world is shut down over the weekend, so we were dead in the water. We did defuel some from the left tank, so it was down about 8 gallons from full. Today, I checked in on the plane after sitting for 24 hours and the dampness is gone and strong smell as dissipated – it is not just a latent odor not terribly different from what I’m used to in other GA aircraft. Joey had indicated the leak was in the outer fuel bay and was most pronounced with full tanks, so this seems consistent with the symptoms this weekend. Unfortunately, due to my schedule, I have to fly home today and will regroup tomorrow with Joey and the local maintenance shop at CHS. The FBO will tow the plane over to the maint shop and we’ll go from there. There you have it! My first weekend of airplane ownership; I expect this is just the beginning.

Hang in there! You will get it resolved and it will become a distant memory.

[Guest]

Fly it down to Tampa to have a complete tank reseal for $1922.

See thread over in Vintage forum

With $500.00 in materials that does not leave a lot left over for labour. Shop rate must be really low.

Clarence