New to flying, would a Mooney fit my mission?

[Rik]

I am finishing up studying the ground portion of the PPL and I was just thinking ahead.

 

I plan to commute, round trip once a week, from the SFO area to the ONT area. I do it now but I'm tired of SouthWest, the commute and the schedule selection.

 

Everyone says buy a Bonanza or a Mooney. Nothing against the Bonanza but I travel solo 99% of the time so a station wagon is really hard to justify and the fuel burn is very high.

 

Would prefer a 180 knot cruise. 

 

Not preferring a 50 yr/old plane that needs paint/interior/engine/etc though.

 

Seems that everyone selling a plane is doing so at about 80% TBO and for some reason, call it logic, it makes ZERO sense to purchase a plane that needs a 40-50K overhaul when the sales price isn't discounted for the expense. I mean a plane with a book value of 80K and needs an engine in a few years isn't worth the engine rebuild/replace + the 80K once it's completed.

 

Is a Mooney a good choice?

 

Experimental's have gotten such a bad of a rap to really want to take the risk with one.

 

 

[ryoder]

Sales prices are always discounted for the engine. Sign up for aopa and you can use their vref online tool to get kbb style valuations. It always decreases based on tsmoh. Also, overhauls don't cost 40 to 50k. Check out jewellaviation for an example of a low cost but reputable overhaul. You are going to pay a whole lot for 180kts cruise. Drop down to 140 to 150 and you can do it for much less. Light sport two seaters are selling for 140 to 180k new and a new 172 is about 350k. Those are 120kt machines on a good day.

[N601RX]

Look for a well built and equip RV7. My brother uses one to travel 3-4 days week with his job. They are very economical to operate and maintain. They have no complex systems on them. You can get a almost new one very well equip for about the same as a J model Mooney

[Rik]

Already a member of AOPA. 140 just doesn't cut it and  I'm certainly not looking for a new plane nor a 172 as it just doesn't fit the mission time wise. I don't want to do each leg in more than 2.5 hrs and that eliminates the 172.

 

Was just reading the OH cost on the Bonanza so maybe I'm confused but they all claim 50K+ for an overhaul so knock off a bit for a 4 cylinder.

[Rik]

Look for a well built and equip RV7. My brother uses one to travel 3-4 days week with his job. They are very economical to operate and maintain. They have no complex systems on them.

 

Back to the experimental quagmire. The Van's all seem fast but the home built as they say is only as good as the cook.

[GeorgePerry]

Bang for the buck you can't beat the M20J (155-160 Knots)  If you want to go faster your looking at a M20K, M20S or M20R.

[larryb]

I fly a Mooney J model regularly between San Jose and Fullerton. It takes me almost exactly 2 hours and 20 gallons block-block.

[N601RX]

With the quick build kits and firewall foward kits that are available today there are a lot less chance for the builder to mess up. Just like any other plane a prepurchase inspection by someone whom knows that model is a must.

[Houman]

I am finishing up studying the ground portion of the PPL and I was just thinking ahead.

 

I plan to commute, round trip once a week, from the SFO area to the ONT area. I do it now but I'm tired of SouthWest, the commute and the schedule selection.

 

Everyone says buy a Bonanza or a Mooney. Nothing against the Bonanza but I travel solo 99% of the time so a station wagon is really hard to justify and the fuel burn is very high.

 

Would prefer a 180 knot cruise. 

 

Not preferring a 50 yr/old plane that needs paint/interior/engine/etc though.

 

Seems that everyone selling a plane is doing so at about 80% TBO and for some reason, call it logic, it makes ZERO sense to purchase a plane that needs a 40-50K overhaul when the sales price isn't discounted for the expense. I mean a plane with a book value of 80K and needs an engine in a few years isn't worth the engine rebuild/replace + the 80K once it's completed.

 

Is a Mooney a good choice?

 

Experimental's have gotten such a bad of a rap to really want to take the risk with one.

To follow what others have said here, it is a big step to go from your PPL to a 180 knots cruise machine. I did it after 1 year of piloting a Beech sundowner and about 100h of experience on it. I can't imagine going from the C172 from my ppl time to a Mooney Rocket 180 to 200 kts right after... even after 150h on C172 and C23 Sundowner, insurance still asked for 15h of instructor time and 10h solo on the Mooney before fully insuring my passengers, but I'm in Canada, so it might be more relaxed in the states.

Good luck, but I would recommand something a bit simpler before going to a high performance complexe Mooney just to be on the safe side.

[ryoder]

Jbaircraftengines does a O360 overhaul turn key for 16k with a two year warranty and that includes removal and installation.

I fly a C model which is the slowest cheapest and most widespread Mooney. It also costs the least to overhaul. If you get one with a high time engine like mine you can put in a brand new engine and custom interior for a very modest investment. The J models cost more but go fast. The E is a great middle of the road and with Gami injectors it's fast and economical. Overhauls and acquisition costs are a bit higher than a C.

[Robert C.]

Bang for the buck you can't beat the M20J (155-160 Knots)  If you want to go faster your looking at a M20K, M20S or M20R.

 

Correct, an Ovation 2 (M20R) will do 180 kts at 9000 ft at roughly 13.6 - 14.1 gph (at 50 LOP). I usually  flight plan 175kts at that altitude at 13.1 gph. You're probably looking at acquisition costs of $200-300k, annuals in the $3-6k range and engine overhauls for the IO550s are usually quoted in the $35k range as I recall.

 

As you are thinking ahead, let me suggest you think 2 years ahead if you're planning on owning a high performance retract like the Mooneys or Bananzas. They are a handful if you're stepping up from a trainer, doable yes, but prudent?

 

My recommendation: Get your PPL, spend about 100 hrs in Archers or C172s to build some experience in different conditions, then, when you're around the 100-150 hr mark buy that Mooney and combine the transition training with a Instrument Rating. You'll enjoy it more and be much better able to use it

[cliffy]

Really do some soul searching about going from a new PPL to a 180 kts go fast airplane. The 2 are not really compatible. Likewise factor in a little weather and NO scud running and you might be rethinking your plans. 140 kts vs 160 kts is only 28 mins. The price of entry for 180 kts goes way up compared to 140/160 kts.

[Danb]

Rik, I would think after you get your ppl in a trainer, then consider moving up to the plane of your choice be it 150 knot or 200 knot cruise and acquire your instrument rating and transitional training at the same time. I believe that learning this way your mind, reflexes, and decision making will be accustomed to the faster airplanes. I would agree with George but also consider a M model, I have to assume I'm prejudice in that thought process. It fits the mission of being an excellent trip machine and in my opinion quite comfy with enough area for baggage.in your neck of the woods you could look up Don Kay for valuable assistance in learning how to fly a Bravo or any other Mooney. Good luck and welcome.

[Rik]

I fly a Mooney J model regularly between San Jose and Fullerton. It takes me almost exactly 2 hours and 20 gallons block-block.

So is this a feasible idea to commute in a Mooney each week?

[Rik]

So how many hours did everyone have before they first flew a Mooney?

[TWinter]

About 65 hrs..  Went from PPL just renting to a Cherokee 140 to Mooney. Good luck

[ryoder]

I had just over 70 when I bought my C. I miss being able to point the 172 downhill sometimes. The trainers are like flying with the brakes on when descending. It takes me many miles to descend from 8k with no power in and bumping up against the yellow arc in increasingly rough air.

[Danb]

I had 70 when I bought my First J model and started my inst. rating at that time..

[Hank]

I bought my C with 62 hours in my logbook, then dawdled for 2 years before starting on my Instrument rating. You need to be flexible in flying, committed to safety and learn to fly very precisely on both airspeed and altitude.

I had just over 70 when I bought my C. I miss being able to point the 172 downhill sometimes. The trainers are like flying with the brakes on when descending. It takes me many miles to descend from 8k with no power in and bumping up against the yellow arc in increasingly rough air.

I just point my C downhill at 500 fpm, and generally stabilize 3-5 mph below the yellow (my yellow starts at 175 mph). No throttle reduction, except to pull it back to the cruise setting as I descend. Same for mixture, except I have to walk it forward to maintain cruise EGT. Miles don't really matter; descending from 9500 msl to pattern of 1600 may require more than 50 miles, but it's still just (9-1/2 minus 1-1/2 = 8000 x 2 = ) 16 minutes, so I'll start down 17-18 minutes out (or another 3-5 miles) so that I can slow down for pattern entry.

[lamont337]

KSFO - KONT direct is 2:06 at 150kts not including climb. I vote M20E. 180kts will save you 15 minutes and that is 15 expensive minutes.

 

With the money saved by going the "E" route you can end up with the autopilot, paint, interior, and other avionics you want/need.

 

(In my C I would plan on 140kts and 2:15 plus climb, bought it at 120 hours)

 

 

I fly a Mooney J model regularly between San Jose and Fullerton. It takes me almost exactly 2 hours and 20 gallons block-block.

 

Scratch that, just hitch a ride with Larryb and split costs.

 

I honestly think any of the models above would be adequate for your mission. Just comes down to how much $$$ and how they are equipped.

 

Good luck to you-

[kmyfm20s]

SURFAIR is your best bet. If San Jose and Burbank are close enough for you.

https://www.surfair.com

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard RIK,

You have heard good input from people who have gone the distance.

It takes a fair amount of dedication to do it right... Continuous reading and training ar par for this course...

Expect getting an instrument rating to make flying more useable.

Some airplanes are better equipped to help fly with the regularity you have in mind.

Don't get confused by the economics... Home built airplanes are not really low cost, when you intend to fly them every Monday and Friday.

Where you fly will add to the tools YOU want to have in YOUR plane. Turbos, FIKI and GTNs to go with your IFR skills...

Only you can answer the question you have posed for yourself...

Get started.

It might take a few years to gain all these skills and equipment.

You're going to get older anyway. Might as well have the skills when you get there...

Best regards,

-a-

[Rik]

Maybe I am confused... Well forget the maybe.

 

Looking at the spec's on Trade A Plane and other for sale sites, the M20J has a cruise speed of 201 mph and this fit's my goal/desire. Everyone seems to be stating that the speeds are lower. Is this due to wind, age or ?  I alway's look at each plane's cruise speed and fuel burn to gauge if they will meet my needs.

 

I would like to be in the 80-100K range for the plane is the budget I am trying to go by. The key seems to find a plane that does not have 20-25% of the life left till TBO but a lot of people run the plane and then sell it before they have to invest $$ in it.

 

As for hours.. I've got to do what is safe, smart and wise financially. Looking at other's here they basically got their PPL and then got an airplane they wanted. Ideally I would love a Lancair but I would love to see tomorrow even more so that plane is out.  Not being naive, it will take X hours just to get a PPL (reading the horror stories it could take more hours than most had prior to getting their Mooney)

 

Everyone says get a plane that fits your mission. 

 

V Tail Bonanza. Fuel burn is to high and rebuild's are to expensive

Cessna 210. Fuel Burn is to high and rebuilds are to expensive

Bellanca Viking. Fast but fabric and wooden wings. Not

Cessna 182, same $ as a Mooney and not nearly as fast nor efficient

Piper Cherokee. To slow, fast versions to expensive

Cirrius, just cannot swing that high ($) and the fuel burn is also to much.

Newer planes are just toooooooo much $$$$ for me to afford.

Vans, home-built... The good/bad/ugly and there is so much of a spread between them that it's hard to judge as no two are the same. However a RV7 with a Deltahawk Diesel is a fast efficient plane.

So this leads to the Mooney. Some 231's fit the budget range, although I don't know anything about one model to the next, the 252's are turbo charged and that might be far to much $ on maintenance cost due to the turbo. The Acclaim's are the prettiest of the Mooney's but far to much $$ for me.

 

What are the things that one should look for when looking at a Mooney? Everwhere I read they mention that the tanks leak, they corrode and they are tiny inside. I'm only 5'9" so the size is less of an issue to me but fuel leaks are a serious one along with corrosion.

[Jerry 5TJ]

I used to fly from north of SF to Orange County KSNA a lot:  Over 120 round trips in about 11 years, that's a fair amount.  About 3/4 of the time I was solo.    The non-turbo Mooney did the job well, save for those days in winter storms when I elected to ride the Kerosene Queen or wait a day for better weather.   Generally 25-27 gallons each way, averaged over N and S bound routes, and 2.5 hours enroute average. 

Best ever was 1.4 hours but there was a heck of a wind at 9000 that day, nearly 100 knots on the tail.   Worst (more than once) was over 4 hours N bound: One day over Van Nuys I was showing 60 knots on the GPS and the trucks on the Grapevine were passing me, also memorable.    Never had to stop for fuel, but did divert for weather a couple of times.  If you fly over Gorman Pass regularly in the winter you will find ice. 

I know it is possible to go into Los Angeles area VFR but I always, bar none, went IFR.   South-bound route was usually LHS V459 SLI with vectors N of SLI to fly H180 to the Queen Mary and then a serpentine into the arrival flow for 19R (now 20R).  Departing SNA towards the north you can file for anything you like but you will get the Anaheim5 departure. 

Hard to fault a solid no-frills Mooney for that mission.

[Rik]

I think I flew 110 times in 2014 between Oakland and Ontario. OAK is a 23 mile drive but it generally takes 1 hr to 1.5 hrs in traffic after 3 pm on Friday. The wait at the airport can range between 30 minutes (my basic plan) to over 1.5 hrs. 1.25 hr flight and then commute 14 miles to office which is only 8 miles from Cable Airport and I'm only 6 miles from KDVO or even closer to a private field so I can cut a chunk off that 3-4 hr commercial ride if I do it myself and I get the flexibility of choosing, within reason, when.