Engine drooling

[Wildhorsesracing]

Hopefully someday I'll be able to upgrade my '62 C with one of these...

 

http://www.ulpower.com/news/blog/ulpowers-new-six-cylinder-engines-available-now

 

Fully electronic, and 40 lbs lighter!

[bonal]

Be carful what you wish for, I don't understand the desire to replace proven designs. LYCS and conti's may be old designs but they work. You can always go the experimental route.

[WardHolbrook]

Be careful what you wish for, I don't understand the desire to replace proven designs. LYCS and conti's may be old designs but they work. You can always go the experimental route.

Yup, Porsche and liquid cooling were supposed to be the greatest things since sliced bread. I do wish FADEC could make economic sense, but it appears that most of us are destined to remain in a 1930's time warp for the foreseeable future. At least our Mooneys are well-proven 1950's designs.  

 

It just goes to show you that the technology and aerodynamics for piston-powered, propeller-driven aircraft was pretty much understood by the end of WWII.   

[Mooneymite]

It is incredible to me that we are still flying behind these old engines.  There really haven't been any significant advancements in years....(decades)!

 

However, in the turbo-jet world there are advancements in design, metalurgy, efficiency, and capabilities every year....economics drives these advancements, but that seems to be missing from the general aviation world.

 

While it might be argued that automobile internal engine design hasn't made any break-throughs either, these engines have enjoyed a long progression of evolutionary improvements.

 

I have to blame the FAA certification process for a large part of this lack of advancement, but obviously the laws governing liability are part of the mix.  Thank goodness for the experimental side of general aviation!

[bonal]

Be honest guys there ain't one of you that would just love to push the throttle behind a Wasp 18 cylinder.

[N33GG]

I love progress, but when I am in the air, I prefer old reliable.

[Mooneymite]

Be honest guys there ain't one of you that would just love to push the throttle behind a Wasp 18 cylinder.

 

My neighbor's T-6 makes sweet sounds, for sure, but everytime he puts gas in that thing it has a dampening effect on my enthusiasm.

 

About 35 gallons/hr. the way he flies it.  

[larryb]

Be carful what you wish for, I don't understand the desire to replace proven designs. LYCS and conti's may be old designs but they work. You can always go the experimental route.

I'm not sure I'd agree with this. Consider:

 

Oil leaks

Cracked cases

Camshaft failure

Exhaust valve failure

Oil consumption

Fouled spark plugs

Need for pre-heat

 

When is the last time you had a problem with the internals of an auto engine? I'm convinced that a clean-sheet design with modern engineering and materials could produce a vastly improved aircraft piston engine.

[Wildhorsesracing]

I am just interested in the simplicity of the new design, no worries about mixture, etc.  All of that stuff could easily be added to our antique engines with great success, but alas paperwork has ground it to a halt...

[mooniac15u]

What will all the LOP folks do when the FADEC controls their mixture?

[Wildhorsesracing]

What will all the LOP folks do when the FADEC controls their mixture?

 

[carusoam]

http://www.continentalmotors.aero/Engine_Details/

We all have our dream power plants...

Mine would be a TN IO550(N).

Will need certain documents to put that in my A/F....

Best regards,

-a-

[Mooneymite]

We all have our dream power plants...

Mine would be a TN IO550(N).

 

Mine would be a PT-6 that burns water.

 

No, wait!  Then they'd try to sell us water for $8/gallon.  

[Guest]

Mine would be a PT-6 that burns water.

 

No, wait!  Then they'd try to sell us water for $8/gallon.  

They already have a huge market paying at least $8.00 per gallon for water, buy a bottle at any major event, Oshkosh included.

Clarence

[jetdriven]

What will all the LOP folks do when the FADEC controls their mixture?

The IO-240F fadec I flew in the Liberty ran it LOP in cruise. The POH contained a note to set the throttle and forget it. Every time you bump it, it restarts the whole leaning process and increases fuel consumption.

[jetdriven]

27,000 euros, that's 33k usd and it's a 1000 tbo. No mention of fuel economy. It doesn't seem too revolutionary, just a 6 cylinder version of a lycoming io-360.

[N201MKTurbo]

You can't compare auto engines to aircraft engines. Most auto engines operate at 10% power most of the time. If you could run them at 75% for any length of time they would melt or explode.

[WardHolbrook]

What will all the LOP folks do when the FADEC controls their mixture?

I think the LOP folks will be quite pleased in that, from what I understand, FADEC runs the engines well LOP during cruise. Oh the humanity!

 

Seriously, does anyone argue against LOP operations any more? That's so 2008.   

[1964-M20E]

What will all the LOP folks do when the FADEC controls their mixture?

Nothing FADEC will run it at its optimum power output for the given conditions which I guess will be at peak or lean of peak.  

[1964-M20E]

One thing I did notice on the specs is max HP for all models is at @ 3200RPM a little fast for our propellers at least 2 bladed types.  Maybe a 4 blade design about 4” top 5” less in diameter might work and would give us increased prop to ground clearance.

[mooniac15u]

I think the LOP folks will be quite pleased in that, from what I understand, FADEC runs the engines well LOP during cruise. Oh the humanity!

 

Seriously, does anyone argue against LOP operations any more? That's so 2008.   

 

Actually, the systems I'm aware of will only go LOP below 65% power.  How many LOPers here restrict their LOP operations to below 65%?  From what I've seen they are hardly a "set it and forget it" group.

[mooniac15u]

Nothing FADEC will run it at its optimum power output for the given conditions which I guess will be at peak or lean of peak.  

 

I believe they are usually set to run at best power until at cruise below 65%.

[carusoam]

Going above 65% requires better knowledge of where the edges of the red box are...

Going more ROP or more LOP than the RB is the guidance given by APS...

Going 20° or 25° BTDC and how to get there is the guidance given by JD...

Flying at 12,000’ there aren't many choices for the N/A crowd... Full throttle, barely LOP, pick an RPM that is smooth...

A really good engine monitor could help.

Is there a way that electronic ignition is going to help?

best regards,

-a-

[rbridges]

You can't compare auto engines to aircraft engines. Most auto engines operate at 10% power most of the time. If you could run them at 75% for any length of time they would melt or explode.

 

You'd have to think that some of the automobile advancements could apply to aircraft engines.  I know they're squeezing more mpg and hp out of modern car engines, and this may be too stressful for a plane's engine, but it is interesting to think I have the same exact engine design as the original owner in 1965!

[bonal]

Our old designs depended on large displacement to make power with reliability from being low stress and relatively low compression moder designs are able to make high HP because of cylinder head design flow characteristics and fuel management especially needed because of the crap they call gas that. Is sold today. A modern sport bike can make over 150HP from only 1000cc that's less than 100 cubic inches translate that to 360 cubic inches and our Lycomings would produce over 500HP of course you could never transfer the heat produced by air cooling so water cooling would be required. I think there are some experimentals that use the Subaru WRX motor with successful results. 225hp out of 2000cc's also it's a boxer so it fits right in typical cowlings