modern 6-pack panel in M20F - space behind the panel issues

[podair]

I know this topic has been covered several times and I have been admiring some of the fantastic panels on this forum, read the various reports on the internet (Jonathan Paul etc). I am specifically looking for advice for the space available behind the panel due to the various structural tubes etc , as this will affect instrument placement and hence influence the design of the new panels themselves. I have been talking to Lyle Hendricks and his work is fantastic , so will most probably order the panels from him.

 

So far I am aware of:

- pilot side panel: little triangle just to the left of the yoke shaft, and yoke shaft itself that points upwards. This affects the length of what can be installed in close proximity of the yoke.

- radio centre stack: structural V bar that limits how far up you can stack radios and how deep these are

- copilot panel: same issue around the yoke and far right 3in instrument holes have limited depth. I already had to locate a Strikefinder below the RPM gauge as it is too deep to be installed where the factory MAP/FP gauge is (bottom right), which would have been my preferred solution as I wanted to have the RPM and MAP together but not possible. The Strikefinder replaced an old Narco Nav121.

 

Anything else I should be aware of before finalising drawings?

 

Looks like I will keep the copilot side broadly unchanged, just put a new overlay to look nicer. I might try to squeeze two 2 in holes around the yoke under the radio stack/former glovebox, but might only accept a very shallow instrument due to the yoke. At present I have the cigar lighter there and further to the right a JPI EDM 700 so plenty deep there on the right. Actually I don't think two will fit, so maybe leave that bit as it is.

 

On the pilot side I will keep a pretty standard 8 x 3in holes plus a single 2in to the far left and space for the ignition switch (I am aware that the unit is actually quite large, coke can size? can I have that below and the 2in above it or should it be the other way round).

I am unsure where to place my prehistoric Bendix HSI (IN831A). It is pretty much the same size (3in ATI) as the KI525A and requires 10in to the back approx. It looks like a lot of panels have managed to place an HSI to the left of the yoke, but I am actually thinking of having the six pack to the right , ie having all 6 standard instruments grouped to the right, so ASI/TC above the left of the yoke, so moving them one notch to the right , AI/HSI in the middle to the right of the yoke, ALT/VSI on the far right , and the two extra 3in holes used to the far left rather than the far right, for an ADF indicator (I have to have it in Europe) and an electric AI (so these will be to the left of the ASI and TC). Does that make sense? Any objections? My TC is the STEC40 TC unit and needs about 5in behind the panel. Alternatively I could do like everyone else and have the HSI to the left of the yoke but that's actually less in my direct field of vision and further away from the GPS where I always cross check track vs heading (at present my HSI is in the top far right corner!).

 

Any suggestions or tips welcome. Current photos of the panel attached. The audio panel is going to be replaced by a combo PS Engineering intercom/panel unit and placed on the copilot stack. So basically what I am trying to sketch out above compared to the current layout is put the HSI where the TC is now, AI above it, and move ASI a bit more to the right (but slightly left of the yoke) with TC below it, and another 3in column to the left of that, so roughly where the current ALT sits (so a little to the right of that, and a 2in hole to the left of that). 

 

Also, in the not too distant future, I'd like to add an Aspen. Anything to be aware of so I don't have to re-order a panel?

 

edited to add: a picture is worth a thousand words... a rough sketch using XPanel, great software (cheeky screenshot as demo mode can't save).

[scottfromiowa]

My A&P mounted the Accu-Trak where you have a proposed install. (Below pilot panel by right knee). I HATE that location. Try like heck to find an alternate position. Your knee/leg will thank you. It is just to tight there. The Accu-Trak has a sharp bezel. I think in an off-field it could have some consequences.

[podair]

oh that thing is just me just playing with the Xpanel. I wanted some kind of altitude / clearance nag, I currently use my ADF's RBI (which is frankly all I use the darn thing for anyway). The thing you see is the P2 Skybuddy, but for $300 maybe I ll just continue using the ADF!

Sporty used to sell a cheapo plastic thing but it has been discontinued.

https://www.p2inc.com/skybuddy.asp

 

the one thing my M20F has which is not standard is another bracket on the copilot side to house the transponder and some more CBs. Not really an issue and quite handy. 

[podair]

lovely M20E Scott! love the paint , new paint/windshield is next year's project and I m debating whether to keep a classic scheme or not. I do think the key upgrade is the sloped m20j windshield, gives a much sleeker look.

The panel lights look very cool too, are these Nulites or UMA? Any issues with the installation?

[podair]

another thing... to the right of the autopilot, the STEC control box, I have two little switches. Autopilot Test and Nav1/Nav2. The switching box that is behind that is huuuge. Anyone know of a more compact unit? I don't really need the nav1/nav2 switch but obviously need the A/P test. 

[scottfromiowa]

Thanks. Took years to get it here. Yes, Nu-Lites. Only one issue. Not enough room to install Nu-Lite on DG. With new style yokes will "hit" with that little increase in travel. It's a five pack lit

Your panel ideas look great! Have fun with the planning. We have room on the co-pilot panel to re-locate the Accu-Trak. In the "someday" category...

[dcrogers11]

One thing to consider is the tilt of the panel and maintaining the correct angle for some of the instruments.  It also becomes an issue with clearances with the yoke shaft behind the panel for those instruments nearest the shaft.  Most pilot side panels tilt out towards the pilot (mostly straight up and down) versus more of a slant that the radio stack and co-pilot side have.  This creates v-shaped gap where the left side meets the radio stack.  Hendricks can break the panel at that intersection to cover that gap.  He just did mine that way.  Another consideration, one that I almost did, is to bring the bottom of the panel down further than the original and cut all the holes for your switches to give it a cleaner look.  

 

Good luck,

Don

[Danb]

Don..that is one clean nice looking panel..real sweet....

[podair]

Great interior as well Don. 

Re the tilt: at present my AI and HSI are on the top 'original' row of instruments, the TC on the bottom slanted one. 

I guess the HSI does not have a gyro built in, so no need to adjust the tilt on that? 

Can one keep and just have the AI and TC recalibrated? Will both be re-adjusted?

[carusoam]

Hmmm... HSI is an electric gyro for the DG part... Isn't it?

Best regards,

-a-

[podair]

Good question, they maybe another gyro in the indicator, but I believe not but may be wrong. It is similar to the kcs55a/ki525 setup, ie hsi indicator, remote gyro in avionics bay, and flux gate in wing. Only the Century one has an integral gyro? Anyway, there is bound to be some adjustment needed but I am hoping it is easily done for all the instruments.

[DaV8or]

Great interior as well Don. 

Re the tilt: at present my AI and HSI are on the top 'original' row of instruments, the TC on the bottom slanted one. 

I guess the HSI does not have a gyro built in, so no need to adjust the tilt on that? 

Can one keep and just have the AI and TC recalibrated? Will both be re-adjusted?

 

I had to replace mine for the new angle. Here is my rebuilt panel on my F.

[bonal]

Dave that is one of the nicest panels it really appeals to my love of steam with a nice addition of glass. Well done sir.

[BigTex]

Dave that is one of the nicest panels it really appeals to my love of steam with a nice addition of glass. Well done sir.

 

+1!  Who did those panels?  I'd love to have mine redone as well.

[dcrogers11]

Hendricks Mfg cut my panels.  He's done several panels shown on Mooney Space.  

 

http://www.hendricksmfg.com/index.html

[DaV8or]

+1!  Who did those panels?  I'd love to have mine redone as well.

 

I designed them and made a photoshop of what I wanted. I then sent the photoshop around to a few shops in the area and in the end it was Executive Autopilots in Sacramento (KSAC) that took on the job. They came out pretty much like the photoshop and they did a great job. I highly recommend them.

[dcrogers11]

I designed them and made a photoshop of what I wanted. I then sent the photoshop around to a few shops in the area and in the end it was Executive Autopilots in Sacramento (KSAC) that took on the job. They came out pretty much like the photoshop and they did a great job. I highly recommend them.

 

Your panel gave me the incentive to install the 795/Airgizmo on the right side of my panel.  You did a great job in your design and layout.  

Don

[FloridaMan]

It may be good for an idea; here's what mine looks like.

 

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/36166-/

[gsxrpilot]

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/35693-/

 

For reference - This is an M20C.

[N400YS]

One thing to consider is the tilt of the panel and maintaining the correct angle for some of the instruments.  It also becomes an issue with clearances with the yoke shaft behind the panel for those instruments nearest the shaft.  Most pilot side panels tilt out towards the pilot (mostly straight up and down) versus more of a slant that the radio stack and co-pilot side have.  This creates v-shaped gap where the left side meets the radio stack.  Hendricks can break the panel at that intersection to cover that gap.  He just did mine that way.  Another consideration, one that I almost did, is to bring the bottom of the panel down further than the original and cut all the holes for your switches to give it a cleaner look.  

 

Good luck,

Don

Hi Guys

 

Could you tell me how much it cost to you to modify your panel like you did it?

 

I have a M20E with a full original  stock panel, and I would like to begin an IFR....so, I'm interested by your wunderfull modification!

 

Thanks

 

Olivier