Opinions on panel upgrade idea?

[Tom]

I'm looking to install a WAAS receiver soon along with both the Accuflite and Accutrak units.  I have been trying to wait to do anything more in hopes that a 23 re-write would provide less expensive options, though spend-itis is setting in. 

To install the Accuflite I need to replace the DG (cost ~1amu for overhauled unit) and for the WAAs a Nav indicator (~2amu for a new unit).  For GPSS, another 1amu.  Thus, installing the new GPS and Accuflite will require ~4amu in parts (not including the Brittain components).  That 10amu Aspen unit now looks like it only would cost 6amu.

Daydreaming has resulted in the panel shown below.  I'm looking for opinions on the panel layout.  To my eye, it seems utilitarian but I'd like other opinions.

A few goals in the setup below are
1) Unclutter the panel.  I don't like seeing 25 dials any more.
2) condense everything to the left panel and center stack
3) allow space adjacent to the PFD for a tablet to run an app using ADHARS +/- pitot/static such as the iLevel AW.  Obviously the tablet could be used to mapping, SV, W/B, etc.

4) Eliminate the need for tablets or other portables on the yokes or hanging from various locations.

With this setup I could forego the 3amu expense of SV on the Aspen display and get the same on the tablet next to the PFD (on a much larger screen).  The tablet costs a few hundred dollars vs the Aspen MFD 5+amu with its smaller display.

 

 

 

[carusoam]

That would be in the FrankenWow! category...

How long have you been addicted to aviation?

Best regards,

-a-

[Danb]

Looks cool! And useful.

[Bob_Belville]

The Aspen install will require you to have certified ASI, ALT and AI backups. Check my pic, The Aspen allowed me to remove the VSI but I had to keep the others 3 steam gauges. Am I understanding you're doing that with a tablet?

[Marauder]

If you buy the Aspen 2000 with the extended battery pack, you can lose your ASI and altimeter as well. The mechanical AI will need to remain.

[Tom]

Thanks for the replies.

In the proposed panel a 3amu Quattro unit would be installed (bottom left) to meet the requirement of retaining an independent AI, Alt, and ASI with the single Aspen.

Without getting into the tapes vs dials discussion, using a Quattro unit is the only way to make everything "fit" on the left panel. For Aspen products, I'm not able to justify getting anything more than the 1000PRO.  A tablet can provide, at much lower cost and with a larger display, what the MFD provides.  Sure, the tablet may not be hard-wired to the 1000PRO, but maybe with Connected Panel it could be.

Interesting to me is the prospect of using the iLevel AW on the tablet.  In the proposed panel, supposing it were legal to plumb a pitot to the iLevel device, this would give a third AHARS system on board that could have the capability of displaying genuine pitot-static dials on the tablet.  Adds safety redundancy at very low cost. 

 

When not needing the iLevel data the tablet could be used for any of the other myriad things that a tablet can offer.
 

[ryoder]

Talk to the guy who is a DPE and does custom panel cutouts for pilots. He has a Dynon mounted over round gagues and an iPad on the center stack as a mfd. The whole thing uses a real flight computer hooked into the pitot system and engine. Its experimental avionics but he made it removable in a dock. I think that Dynon would be preferable to an Aspen plus an engine monitor. Look at a Vans RV12 SLSA for an example of a super clean panel using a Dynon.

[1964-M20E]

I think you will find on the center stack you will not have enough room (vertical height)  to put everything there.  You will most likely have to take your XPNDR and com 2 and move them to the right of the main center stack.  Also you most likely will want to create an avionic bus with new breakers on the co-pilot side.

[Mscheuer]

Tom, glad to see our new PMA450 on top of your potential new panel upgrade. I've attached the Aviation Consumer reprint from Sept 2014 which gives some great insights on just how well our new IntelliAudio works as well as the 3-Softkey Graphics Display User interface works.

 

If I can answer any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

Sincerely,

Mark Scheuer

www.ps-engineering.com

AviationConsumer_PMA450.pdf

[carusoam]

Hey Mark,

Quick question for you...

I was looking at the BK audio panel with the PS guts...

http://www.bendixking.com/Products/Audio-Accessories/Audio-Control-Consoles/KMA-30

I like the modern PS unit.

But it won't look as nicely integrated in my panel as the lesser BK/PS unit.

Would you have any idea of how I could get the modern PS guts in the standard looking BK chassis?

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

So what's the price delta between G430W / AccuTrak / AccuFlight that I already have, and your super dream panel?

One thing that stands out to me us the first question my (inactive) pilot father asked on his first ride with me, " where are the instruments on my side?" Your right side us completely empty, and even adding breakers won't fill much. Some pax will enjoy having done thing to look at, especially in IMC.

But it looks great on the left, although it makes my back pocket hurt.

[ryoder]

Aspen has a VFR only pfd for five thousand. It can be upgraded to ifr at any point with software.

http://www.aspenavionics.com/vfr

If I find the right installer I might put this puppy in my airplane. I just don't want to spend tons of money doing it because I need a new panel cut to do so due to gagues not being on top of one another.

[carusoam]

Ryo,

Have you been here?

http://www.hendricksmfg.com/panels.html

It may be helpful if you consider a new panel.

Mooney guy as well....

Best regards,

-a-

[Mscheuer]

Hey Mark,

Quick question for you...

I was looking at the BK audio panel with the PS guts...

http://www.bendixking.com/Products/Audio-Accessories/Audio-Control-Consoles/KMA-30

I like the modern PS unit.

But it won't look as nicely integrated in my panel as the lesser BK/PS unit.

Would you have any idea of how I could get the modern PS guts in the standard looking BK chassis?

Best regards,

-a-

Actually, the KMA30 is our PMA8000BT with the BK looks.

The PMA450 is only available in PSE cosmetics. But, it happens to use the same coloring as the GTN750, along with the same radius corners.

Hope this helps

Mark Scheuer

PS Engineering

[kortopates]

I personally would re-think the far left quadrant. I really don't think the engine monitor deserves the important area its currently getting - this should be for your partial panel instruments which is your Quattro unit. Placed where it is, your partial panel scan is from the far left lower corner and up to the right WAAS GPS for NAV. Just my opinion but I wouldn't like that high workload in IFR conditions. Instead, I'd move that engine monitor over to the right. With all the programmable alarm capabilities in our engine monitors I really don't see the need to be able to stare at it through the flight and I fly a more complex turbo 6. But ease of scanning the backup instruments is key if you intend to fly much IFR. I understand when people are trying to get by with minimal panel cutting but it looks like you're already doing a major overhaul of it as it is. I understand your goal to have "all" your instruments on the left in easy view, but I would amend that to have all the "flight critical instruments" in view on the left and IMO neither the engine monitor nor iPad are in the flight critical domain.  

 

The Quattro is a great unit but have you been able to verify that its approved to replace your otherwise required 3 backup gauges by Aspen? Some of the manufacturers are very specific about what they approve. But maybe Aspen doesn't and allows you to use anything TSO'd for them in which case you should be good.  

[Bob_Belville]

I personally would re-think the far left quadrant. I really don't think the engine monitor deserves the important area its currently getting - this should be for your partial panel instruments which is your Quattro unit. Placed where it is, your partial panel scan is from the far left lower corner and up to the right WAAS GPS for NAV. Just my opinion but I wouldn't like that high workload in IFR conditions. Instead, I'd move that engine monitor over to the right. With all the programmable alarm capabilities in our engine monitors I really don't see the need to be able to stare at it through the flight and I fly a more complex turbo 6. But ease of scanning the backup instruments is key if you intend to fly much IFR. I understand when people are trying to get by with minimal panel cutting but it looks like you're already doing a major overhaul of it as it is. I understand your goal to have "all" your instruments on the left in easy view, but I would amend that to have all the "flight critical instruments" in view on the left and IMO neither the engine monitor nor iPad are in the flight critical domain.  

 

The Quattro is a great unit but have you been able to verify that its approved to replace your otherwise required 3 backup gauges by Aspen? Some of the manufacturers are very specific about what they approve. But maybe Aspen doesn't and allows you to use anything TSO'd for them in which case you should be good.  

Completely concur. I've had my "new" panel 2 years now. We put the aviate devices on the pilot side of the panel and the navigate (GTN750) in the center so the EDM is relegated to a position above the co-pilot yoke. (The Aspen RAD in right above the Aspen.) I would do it exactly the same again. And I believe Aspen is very firm about not only what but where the back up instruments can be placed when installing their EFD1000PRO PFD. 

[ArtVandelay]

Completely concur. I've had my "new" panel 2 years now. We put the aviate devices on the pilot side of the panel and the navigate (GTN750) in the center so the EDM is relegated to a position above the co-pilot yoke. (The Aspen RAD in right above the Aspen.) I would do it exactly the same again. And I believe Aspen is very firm about not on what but where the back up instruments can be placed when installing their EFD1000PRO PFD.

I would add an indicator light if you are moving the engine monitor to the right stack, so if an alarm is triggered you'll know it

[Bob_Belville]

I would add an indicator light if you are moving the engine monitor to the right stack, so if an alarm is triggered you'll know it

The RAD displays and alarms right in front of you. (JPI EDM 930)

[HRM]

One thing that stands out to me us the first question my (inactive) pilot father asked on his first ride with me, " where are the instruments on my side?" Your right side us completely empty, and even adding breakers won't fill much. Some pax will enjoy having done thing to look at, especially in IMC.

 

This was my thinking. You need to picture yourself in the right seat and ask, could I fly this from here? if the answer is no, then rethink the panel.

 

BTW, doesn't have to be comfortable, but come emergency time might make the difference between getting down OK or not.

[podair]

whats the rpm oat display above the Aspen?

[dcrogers11]

FYI, on my EDM 900 install, the STC requires a minimum distance from the pilot's centerline view that the display can't exceed.  I think it was 21", but you might want to check.

 

Don

[carusoam]

RPM, MAP & alarms display...

Good JPI data in front of the pilot when the JPI has to go on the copilot side for space...

Best regards,

-a-

[MB65E]

Funny.. the old tach and Manifold guages were at the far right side of the panel. Even further away than the current JPI location. It does look nice!

I moved my tach and MP just left of the radios.

-Matt

[podair]

I can't find info on this additional little display for the JPI, do you have a link or name if it is not made by JPI?

[Bob_Belville]

It is a RAD - Remote Auxilary (or Alarm) Display. It routinely displays MAP & RPM and then any Alarms that occur.

 

Watch the introductory video here:

https://www.jpinstruments.com/shop/edm-930-primary/