RIP HSI...now what?

[Amelia]

Thank you, each of you, for helping to focus my decision-making process. I see I have some extensive research to do! First, maybe, ought to be trying to clarify what is the problem with the old one. Today? No problem at all. Worked perfectly coming home from DC, the whole way. Of course, the trip up to DC, with a nervous Angel Flight passenger, natch, the HSI began a lazy drift counter-clockwise about 10 minutes after takeoff, and a reset of the compass-slave button helped temporarily, as did pulling the circuit breaker and resetting it. Finally I grumbled phooey, and slapped a sticky note over it. Peeked under the sticky note as we bumped through the clouds, and lo, it had decided to agree with the compass, so I gingerly tried to reset the autopilot. It seemed fine for the last half hour of the ride. The same thing happened the prior week, the HSI heading info sporadically diverged at least 45 degrees from the compass and the course information on the GPS display. The time it really got my attention was on climb out from a little airport just south of DC, inside the FRZ, a month ago. Approach asked me to verify my heading of 180, a glance at the HSI confirmed that to be the case, exactly, then I looked up to see the Washington Monument and the Mall dead ahead.

OOOOOPS! I squeaked an admission of my DG problem to Potomac Approach, hastily aimed in the opposite direction, and played reset games for a while until it began to read properly. Each time, I have been able to get it to play nice, but it took some unladylike threats.

So, I am planning a couple of trips before long that will require things to be working well. My inclination now is to talk to these experts here cited for a diagnosis, and if possible, to fix what's there, rather than spending a lot of money on a system that may have a steep learning curve. On the other hand, I DO have a birthday coming up...and the wheels haven't fallen off my 20-year-old car yet.

[chrisk]

A interesting topic it seems those who do not have glass have a lot of negative reasons while those who do would never want to go back..I'm all for going back to compass and adf...

I'd go back to steam guages, but not the king AI. I'm sure some love it, but I don't. I just have to think to much when I look at it. With that said, I like some of the older AI's that have the spider web pattern on them. And I might actually prefer the mechanical HSI, but not the maintance bill. Aspen gave me a new HSI, and an AI the instantly conveys the information. It also gave me gpss, a flight computer, and the ability to set altitude warnings. I like it, and for me it was probably the right choice.

[carusoam]

Quick review:

I'd like a three pack of Aspens, lottery providing...

Watch an Aspen on you tube... marauder has posted a couple.

Follow along with the flight plan...

The presentation is easy to follow with no prior experience.

Some data Is challenging at first, like there is no ball in the screen, but the equivalent is there...

A two-screen set-up can have a plethora of AHARS data and tremendous battery powered back-up capability.

I don't have them. Not because I'm a fan of Swiss mechanical watches...

I wouldn't want to fly the different systems every day. Making the switch once is a little bit of a challenge worthy of staying in VMC for a few flights.

My experience is mostly from the chemical process industry. We went glass screens 30 years ago, and won't be looking back.

Fortunately the old and the new, both do the same thing. Fly in IMC.

My analog VSI can't discern the difference between 40 and 50 fpm unless I'm staring / fixated at it.

I'll be staying with the HSI until it wears so much the electronic version is the cheaper alternative.

Best I can tell, we are all pilots looking for the same data. No more, no less. These devices all deliver the same data, some more. But they don't add more than you want.

Good luck,

By choosing wisely (economically), you are well entrenched in the club.

Welcome to the CB club...

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob_Belville]

Amelia, I had a old Narco HSI which was a little flaky. I had a back up unit but I decided to go with the Aspen and like it a lot. As Marauder says, the Aspen should be at lease as easy to read as what you have now. If you make it up to MRN 11/15 or down to Panama Beach I'll be happy to show it off. 

 

GPSS is really a nice feature. We have at least two avionics shops in NC you probably know. My panel was done by Twin Lakes in Mocksville and Sparkchasers in Smithfield is even closer to you.

[Amelia]

You guys are the greatest! Thanks much for the advice and encouragement. I talked to my nearest avionics shop, who's apparently booked solid at the moment, but can install a nice Aspen for $11,000ish if I'm willing to wait, and let 'em have my airplane for a week. And I talked to the VERY nice Bob Bramble who will give the current boxes a look-see. He theorizes that if we're lucky, it may just be a loose contact, or a missing tooth in a gear in the remote gyro, which might be a few hundred bucks, or a whole overhaul of both things, which would be a couple thousand. If I remember what he said correctly. In which case, it's probably going to make more sense than spending many thousands on So-Pretty. I'm used to the analog 'Swiss watch,' anyway.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Personally, the Aspen will be a big help at the time you decide to sell your plane.  It's a great system.  I've owned a G-500 and flown about 25 hours behind an Aspen on a couple different twins.  Both are great, but I wouldn't do the Garmin unless I had an all Garmin panel.

 

I would go for the Aspen to make selling your plane easier in the future.

 

That said, you're not making a bad decision to overhaul your unit, either.

[KSMooniac]

Don't forget the KMT 112 flux gate out in the wing as a source of trouble too.  They do fail, and are cheap to replace.  A neighbor was having HSI issues in his Twin Co and had gone thru the gyro and indicator and I offered him my salvage KMT 112 to try... and it fixed his issues for $250.

[kmyfm20s]

I had my ADI go out in my previous "J" and had it rebuilt. Shortly after within the warranty period it went out again and I sent it back. The company said it went out due to contamination, go figure. Had that up and running for a solid week then my HSI went bad and had it rebuilt. I use my plane to commute to a few office I have a couple time a week. Just the repairs of the old equipment was with a $1000 of putting in an Aspen at the time, let alone the I convince of driving 3 weeks. Of course hind sight make everything clear. Unfortunately these planes are aging and anytime you can replace a few things at once can be a good idea.

[PTK]

It's amazing how those Timex watches work isn't it?

KI-525A =

Aspen =

You follow?

[KSMooniac]

Which one is the G500?

[kmyfm20s]

[231LV]

As mentioned in a previous thread, ("HSI just went TU"), I embarked on an Aspen upgrade. I received it this past weekend and have about 3 hours flying behind it. The unit is beautiful and chock full of information....basically, you can now gather all necessary info by looking at this single piece of glass when flying light or hard IMC...that said, the install can be a bit of a bear as my autopilot (Century 41) interface essentially doesn't work...I am troubleshooting the problem with the installer so standby to see what comes out of it....in theory, the interface is elegant...input my GPS destination in the flight plan page of the GPS unit and the Aspen will auto steer the course (if you set it to Autocourse)...it will also follow the heading bug if autocourse is disabled...this all requires that the Aspen and the autopilot are happily engaged.....right now, my autopilot simply hauls into a standard rate left hand turn and keeps circling...

[Alan Fox]

If the HSI is close to 60 degrees off in slave mode , try unslaving it and see if it holds a heading , if it holds a heading unslaved it is either the Flux valve or the slaving accy....you do not need to overhaul the HSI....just get it repaired......Repairs on King units are usually in the 500 dollar range....  If it gets crazy , I can get you a -07 indicator for about 1500.00 , if it is the KG102A I sell them for about 1000.00 with mod 7 good luck... 

[Marauder]

As mentioned in a previous thread, ("HSI just went TU"), I embarked on an Aspen upgrade. I received it this past weekend and have about 3 hours flying behind it. The unit is beautiful and chock full of information....basically, you can now gather all necessary info by looking at this single piece of glass when flying light or hard IMC...that said, the install can be a bit of a bear as my autopilot (Century 41) interface essentially doesn't work...I am troubleshooting the problem with the installer so standby to see what comes out of it....in theory, the interface is elegant...input my GPS destination in the flight plan page of the GPS unit and the Aspen will auto steer the course (if you set it to Autocourse)...it will also follow the heading bug if autocourse is disabled...this all requires that the Aspen and the autopilot are happily engaged.....right now, my autopilot simply hauls into a standard rate left hand turn and keeps circling...

Sounds like the ACU wasn't installed or wired correctly. The auto course can stay on all the time and will only come into play when you are navigating with a GPS Nav signal engaged in GPSS. If you disable GPSS on the Aspen, the heading bug will operate the autopilot like a standard DGS with a heading bug.

On my STEC, I can press the HDG and NAV buttons at the same time and this allows the autopilot to follow the heading bug until the Nav signal is valid and then it switches over to APR mode and captures the approach course.

[GeorgePerry]

I have a Garmin 530W and a KAP150. I expect to fly this airplane until I can't pass a class III medical. Which means maybe 10 more years if I'm lucky. And still lucid. Trouble is, I am a little hesitant to put a $5 collar on this $2 dog. And a little concerned about the added complexity and head-down time. But those magic boxes are awfully pretty.

 

Hopefully the 3rd Class medical will not be a requirement much longer .  Unless you do a bunch of hard IFR flying, I'd lean towards just fixing what you have.  Or if you have a hanker'in for glass, pony up the bucks for the aspen.  

[231LV]

Sounds like the ACU wasn't installed or wired correctly. The auto course can stay on all the time and will only come into play when you are navigating with a GPS Nav signal engaged in GPSS. If you disable GPSS on the Aspen, the heading bug will operate the autopilot like a standard DGS with a heading bug.

On my STEC, I can press the HDG and NAV buttons at the same time and this allows the autopilot to follow the heading bug until the Nav signal is valid and then it switches over to APR mode and captures the approach course.

That is my first thought, as well...I will have to take it back to the installer to troubleshoot

[John Pleisse]

$3,500 to rebuild an HSI is almost as unrealistic as quoting $9,000 for an Aspen.

 

 

Incorrect...#'s are close. I would argue $1,300 for a King HSI OH is nowhere near accurate....maybe just a repair. As for the $9k on the Aspen, it is correct assuming you trade a ditched King HSI system....a pretty accurate #. The real conundrum is throwing good money after bad.

[fantom]

Incorrect...#'s are close. I would argue $1,300 for a King HSI OH is nowhere near accurate....maybe just a repair. As for the $9k on the Aspen, it is correct assuming you trade a ditched King HSI system....a pretty accurate #. The real conundrum is throwing good money after bad.

 

Well, one conundrum (not that I think Marauder even knows the definition of the word  ) is the true difference between a repair and an overhaul other than the amount of money someone is willing to throw at an undiagnosed issue. A second conundrum, make than an impossibility, is finding an avionics shop anywhere that will remove and buy an inoperative HSI system for over $3,000. This goes beyond buying at wholesale and selling at retail.

 

I won't even touch the faulty assumption that repairing something is throwing good $ after bad. Since Amelia has made up her mind, I done with this discourse.

[John Pleisse]

No discourse......just friendly help. If you ever decide to upgrade, I am sure you'll find a great price.

[Amelia]

Amelia has more or less decided to at least see what ails the old system. If that turns out to be a very pricey solution, the glass is still a very attractive option, especially thanks to Marauder Chris's good real-world video. Thank you for the time you all devoted to this discussion. It was most helpful!

[Marauder]

Amelia has more or less decided to at least see what ails the old system. If that turns out to be a very pricey solution, the glass is still a very attractive option, especially thanks to Marauder Chris's good real-world video. Thank you for the time you all devoted to this discussion. It was most helpful!

You're welcome Amelia!

For Peter:

KI-525A (ZZZZZZZZZZZZ- wake me when it is over):

http://youtu.be/dwBB4g2Oqo0

Aspen (Timex multi-function watch):

http://youtu.be/-PE2qxmqk94

Got it?

[Guest]

Maurader,

I'd get that Aspen checked, there's something wrong with the TAS.

[Marauder]

Maurader,

I'd get that Aspen checked, there's something wrong with the TAS.

I know, terrible isn't it?!

[carusoam]

GS

TAS

CAS

Wind speed at the destination...

So many speeds on one colorful screen.

Completely backed up on another.

Who would want that???

Even Timmy can't fly with that kind of modern technology.

Call me a young dinosaur, but I'm staying with the old analog display of digital data (who thought that was a good idea?)

I'm hoping there is a low cost resolution like oiling a bearing for this one.

Best regards,

-a-

[Awqward]

Amelia your symptoms of wandering heading and inability to engage AP are exactly what I had....it wasn't the HSI, it was the remote gyro (KG102A)....I got an exchange unit from Castleberry Instruments and swapped it out in about 5 minutes (lug and play)

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