AOPA: Service work sustaining Mooney

[KSMooniac]

Service work sustaining Mooney

By Alton K. Marsh

Mooney Aircraft is riding out the economic downturn through customer service and warranty support work, a spokeswoman said. Once an employer of 400 workers, the Kerrville, Texas, company now has 55.

Customer support remains fully staffed at the factory. Mooney did not display last year at EAA AirVenture in Oshkosh, Wis., and will not display again this year, but continues to attend other shows such as Sun ’n Fun in Lakeland, Fla., and AOPA Aviation Summit in Long Beach, Calif., Nov. 11 through 13. Mooney will send factory representatives to Oshkosh, as it did last year.

The Mooney inventory sold out last December. There are no new aircraft at the factory or at dealers. Some 7,000 Mooney aircraft remain in service. Although there are eight partially completed aircraft in the factory, Mooney will not complete those unless a production line can be sustained. A ready workforce remains in the Kerrville area, although some now drive to aerospace jobs in San Antonio. Others have found work in Kerrville.

Talks are in progress with new investors so that the production line can be restarted. However, the investors feel the economy remains volatile, and while many indicators have improved, there remains little confidence among customers in the current recovery, the spokeswoman said. Mooney has received inquiries from owners who want to upgrade, indicating support for a production line once the economy improves.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Most everyone around here knows someone who used to work for Mooney...hopefully that'll change.

But take a prospective pilot to see a plane...Cirrus wins easy, unfortunately.

[mooneygirl]

Wow Parker, that hasn't been my experience.  Of course at Ambassador events we are getting folks into the Mooneys and talking about their unique American heritage as a company.  And also, there aren't any Cirrus owners promoting Cirrus like we are doing for Mooney.  When you think of speed, efficiency and safety, I don't think there is another brand that competes.  We are currently working with one or two prospective pilots, who are also business owners.

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: mooneygirl

Wow Parker, that hasn't been my experience.

[MooneyMitch]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

 

I think Mooney has the best value by far (especially pre-owned), but every aircaft Expo I go to with Falcon, there's generally someone's Acclaim there, but the Cirrus dealers get the crowd of non-pilots...they might look over the airplane, but the Cirrus has 2 doors, "looks" more practical, has some friendly sales guy that demonstrates a non-pilot can go from nothing to a plane and a pilot certificate just like that.

Their presentation beats Cessna's 400 presentation, the aircraft is easier to get in/out of, though I would probably take a C400 over a Cirrus any day (as a pilot). It just seems so much more marketable.

[jmills]

Pretty sure everyone on this site agrees handsdown that Mooney is THE GA plane to own for speed and cost efficiency. But Parker has hit the nail on the head re: Cirrus. Hey, Betamax was a superior form to tape TV over VCR back in the day... but better doesn't always = 'the win' in a public opinion/relations/marketing setting.

 

[DaV8or]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

I think Mooney has the best value by far (especially pre-owned), but every aircaft Expo I go to with Falcon, there's generally someone's Acclaim there, but the Cirrus dealers get the crowd of non-pilots...they might look over the airplane, but the Cirrus has 2 doors, "looks" more practical, has some friendly sales guy that demonstrates a non-pilot can go from nothing to a plane and a pilot certificate just like that.

[Kwixdraw]

Piper and Cessna were really onto something in marketing trainers and getting the pilots started and moving them up once they knew what an aircraft could actually do for them.  Seems to me we are counting on all these LSAs to do that for us but most of the public just sees them as a dangerous curiosity.

[Geoff]

I think Dave is onto something but nothing in GA will get better until we get the pilot population growing again.  Here are my ideas:

1.  Keep focusing on AOPA's "young eagles" concept as the medium/long term future

2.  Outreach to other "powersports" customers who have the inclination and disposable income for flying, i.e. you know those risk taking folks, boaters, motorcyclists, wave runner pilots.

3.  Outreach to the RC aircraft folks who obviously like airplanes but can't seem to get off the ground.

For Mooney, here are my ideas:

Short run, get some cash flow going:

1.  Look at the refurb market.  Buy up run out M20F/M20J models, throw in a new engine/interior with a standardized basic IFR instrument package (i.e. no customization), repaint in modern style, wrap it with a 1 year factory warranty sell for ~$150k.  This could keep the workers skills current, not to mention employed, and generate a modest cashflow. 

2.  Start offering reasonable prices on upgrades to existing customers, i.e. interior, avionics, etc.

3.  Promote club ownership through factory sponsored networking and club formation.

Medium/Long term

1.  Product evolution.  Keep the wings exactly as they are.  2 door fuselage in Carbon fiber with same basic profile, with an eye to potential future pressurization.   This does 3 things, first it improves ingress/egress which is a problem for many older/heavier pilots; second, it updates the airframe to the future "composite" technology as well as providing experience for CF use in other components; third, provides a pathway to pressurization.  Benefits would be enhanced speed/efficiency in current product line.  Updated image for marketing purposes, and greater utility for he mobility challenged.   

2.  Use lessons learned in #1 to develop small turboprop capability (RR500).  Think a Moonified Epic Escape.

[fantom]

Good ideas, Geoff.

 

Sharp pencil to the E/F/early J market, no customization other than paint and interior color, very basic, remove the middle man and sell directly from factory, and maybe a 2 year and/or 600 hour warranty for $150 to 175K could work. Less, of course, for owner supplied planes. A strong, SINGLE, national club/network could do wonders.

 

Mandatory that the factory get competitive with the rest of the market on upgrades. Right now their pricing, and delivery timing leaves much to be desired.

 

Someone with aviation savvy, some guts, and a NEW vision needs to step in, if MAC is to survive. The opportunists, bean counters, foreign investors, and hi-bye people have done Kerrville a grave disservice.

 

Need to think way out of that box in the current environment, which ain't easy in the aviation industry. Sitting around and hoping the economy gets better is a recipe for a slow but sure death.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: fantom

Mandatory that the factory get competitive with the rest of the market on upgrades. Right now their pricing, and delivery timing leaves much to be desired.

 

Someone with aviation savvy, some guts, and a NEW vision needs to step in, if MAC is to survive. The opportunists, bean counters, foreign investors, and hi-bye people have done Kerrville a grave disservice.

 

Need to think way out of that box in the current environment, which ain't easy in the aviation industry. Sitting around and hoping the economy gets better is a recipe for a slow but sure death.

[Geoff]

Speaking of out of the box, to generate some cash flow Mooney could go way down market and offer an updated VFR M10 Cadet LSA with a Rotax 912 in it.  By updated I mean aluminum tail/wings and carbon fiber/fiberglass fuselage with G3X like avionics.  Could be a viable alternative to the beat down piper tomohawks and C152's we all learned in and prove to be more resilient than the current crop of "plastic" LSA's.

Might even offer it as a homebuilt with "factory assist" builder programs.  Heck, at the right price I might even buy one for my kids to learn on or when I get too old and the FAA threatens my medical!  Ahh, a mooney for the golden years...

[skyking]

Diamond is eating the competition here in canada much the same way.

I was in London Ontario a week ago and there were over 40 new 2 and 4 place planes all sold and waiting to be test flown. They also opened their own flight school. They are doing what Cessna did for the C152 and 172's and literally training their next customer.

I love my Mooney and want to upgrade to a newer one someday and the extra door, larger luggage door, a little more interior space etc would go a long way to convince me to buy a new one.

Regardless, i can tell you this much, i will never own anything but a Mooney.

I bought a new 172 in 2005 and after a year sold it to buy a 50 year old Mooney and consider it one of the smartest things i have done.

[DaV8or]

Quote: Geoff

1.  Product evolution.  Keep the wings exactly as they are.  2 door fuselage in Carbon fiber with same basic profile, with an eye to potential future pressurization.   This does 3 things, first it improves ingress/egress which is a problem for many older/heavier pilots; second, it updates the airframe to the future "composite" technology as well as providing experience for CF use in other components; third, provides a pathway to pressurization.  Benefits would be enhanced speed/efficiency in current product line.  Updated image for marketing purposes, and greater utility for he mobility challenged.   

2.  Use lessons learned in #1 to develop small turboprop capability (RR500).  Think a Moonified Epic Escape.

[roundout]

While I don't disagree with the zeitgeist of the posts in this thread, I think that some folks may not understand just what kind of time and money it takes to bring an airplane to certification and production. Mooney can't afford to bring anything new to the table and can't afford to even really improve upon the existing airframe (max t/o and landing weights, for instance) because of the costs associated with certification. 

The M20R and M20TN are difficult to sell against competing models from brand C and Bend. They are also difficult to sell against earlier Mooneys because, frankly, the earlier models are just about there in terms of performance and are available for much less money. Putting aspects such as tax benefits, warranty, etc. aside, you can buy a Bravo for $250k that is 15 knots slower than an Acclaim. A Rocket is nearly as fast as an Acclaim. You can buy an old Ovation or a Missile and put Aspen or G600 in it for half the price of a new Ovation. 

I would love to see Mooney making and delivering 100+ airframes a year again like we did in 2007, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The only way I see something like that happening is if they can get somebody like Richard Branson to be the investor. A guy like that would look beyond the bottom line and see that the entire spirit of GA could hinge upon a great company innovating and transforming the look of the industry (see brand C, early 2000s. You don't have to like their product to understand that they DID revolutionize GA) and not get too caught up with how much money might be spent in the process. 

Even if the company as we know it doesn't come out of this in the shape we want it to, I suspect that you will probably see a kit version come out in Carbon Fiber, much like the kit that is basically a CF Comanche. This airframe is too good and has too many supporters to just die on the vine, even if the legacy company can't afford to develop it any further. 

[Mcstealth]

"Just how hard would it be to fabricate a second door on the damn thing" is what I used to say to myself.

[DaV8or]

Quote: roundout

While I don't disagree with the zeitgeist of the posts in this thread, I think that some folks may not understand just what kind of time and money it takes to bring an airplane to certification and production. Mooney can't afford to bring anything new to the table and can't afford to even really improve upon the existing airframe (max t/o and landing weights, for instance) because of the costs associated with certification.

[Ron McBride]

I found a picture of the interior of my F without the sidepanels. There are 3 structural pieces where the door would go. What the engineering and changes to be required for a second door, I don't have the faintest clue about.

 

I attached a picture, hopefully I did it right.

 

Ron with a 69F

 

 

[MooneyMitch]

"If I were a rich man................diddle, diddle, etc"...............I would buy Mooney and make it happen. 

[skyking]

Come on Lotto max! This fridays draw is worth over 50 million.

If i win i will make it all come true.....LOL

[scottfromiowa]

The VAST majority of Mooney airframes are 201/252 and earlier.  The idea of a re-furb program for interior and paint as well as a Lo-Presti type super cowl is an awesome one!  Mooney should abandon the "high priced" market and return to its roots providing a super efficent and fast (new cowl and additional mods could significantly increase on the 201 speed) airframe that is smaller...i.e. the 201 with a better done interior to mazimize space.  Provide a simple six back Garmin IFR panel and an upgrade for flat panel...for those that want it.  Make the new engine/fuel monitors/flow standard.  Price the plane where it needs to be to sell!  The big long wide body Ovation's are beautiful, but they can't compete with Cirrus/Cessna.  We all love our 201's and me my M20E.  How long do 1989-early 90's 201's last on market if priced right?  There is a demand for this simple speed/efficency and STRONG steel roll cage and gear...Price it right...there IS a market for the Super 201...Build it...or offer cabin panel-refurbishment for a price that will keep 'em coming...

[Kwixdraw]

It seems to me that things could be done to make the aircraft more reasonably priced. Maybe some cost studies to see if landing gear could be made more economically. We were looking at the parts from my J in A&P class a couple weeks ago and the instructor was pointing out how much jigging and complicated welding was involved. Certainly the gear actuators are crazy expensive. I know a lot of these parts costs are insurance related but then again if you were to develop another source for the darn thing Eaton or whoever is building them now might be inclined to be more reasonable. Of course your supplier has to want to stay in the business. Anyone check the price for brake pads for old Goodyear brakes like on an old C-170 lately? $400+ for just the pads. Goodyear would rather you convert these planes to something else so they don't have the liability headache any more.

Maybe just changing to some composit parts might help. For example the cabin and baggage doors. It's got to be cheaper to build those out of composits and probably lighter too. I hear that the way they are done now each one is a unique item that is a cut and test proposition to install. If you have 50 some odd people trying to keep the place going I would hope some of them are trying to improve the process for building the product.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: scottfromiowa

The idea of a re-furb program for interior and paint as well as a Lo-Presti type super cowl is an awesome one!  Mooney should abandon the "high priced" market and return to its roots providing a super efficent and fast (new cowl and additional mods could significantly increase on the 201 speed) airframe that is smaller...i.e. the 201 with a better done interior to mazimize space.  Provide a simple six back Garmin IFR panel and an upgrade for flat panel...for those that want it.  Make the new engine/fuel monitors/flow standard.  Price the plane where it needs to be to sell

[jmills]

Well, this guy has a booming business, I imagine the factories (such as Mooney) could get involved and do similar projects:

Pristine Airplanes.

 

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: jmills

Well, this guy has a booming business, I imagine the factories (such as Mooney) could get involved and do similar projects:

Pristine Airplanes.