In a Mooney right for me?

[legallegend]

I recently started a thread on M20J Operating Costs.  I really should have started with this thread.  Please induldge me and give me your thoughts.

Is a Mooney right for me?  My uses will be: 1) IFR trainer (this depends on how long it is from now until I buy a plane - I may be IR by then), 2) weekend getaway vehicle for family (wife, 2 kids [5.5 and 3 years old]), 3)  $100 burgers, and 4) guys trips to ballgames/races (low priority), 5) overnight trips with adult couple friends (only slightly higher priority than (4), and 6) general turning $$$ into HP. 

I have done W&B calculations for various planes I have found on line.  It looks like I could do the flights that I think I might do based on the numbers.  Of course, the real world is always different. 

Another issue is that I am not aware of a Mooney specialist anywhere near me.  I am in Knoxville, Tennessee.  It looks like the closest might be Joey Cole in Rome.  I do not like the idea of being so far from the mechanic if something goes wrong.

The other plane I have been considering is an A36.  I know that with a Mooney I totally give up the option of taking my parents with us, but even with the Bo I do not know how feasible this would be anyway.

I appreciate any wisdom and guidance you guys can impart.

[231Pilot]

If you really want trips with 4 adults and luggage, the Mooney is probably not the aircraft for you.  Even in the J, rear seat legroom is not great, luggage for 4 will be an issue.  It is a great plane for you, your wife, your kids or you and a friend or two.  If you want to carry the extras and stay in a single, the A36, a Piper Lance, or a Cherokee 6 (fixed gear) are probably better choices. 

A knowledgable local mechanic can handle your maintenance, but he needs to know Mooneys, and he needs to follow the Mooney Checklist for 100 hour inspections.  Rome is not a long trip from Knoxville, if you must use a MSC.

All in all, I'd still rather fly a Mooney.

[legallegend]

The 4 adult trips would be rare.  How uncomfortable would it be for 1 overnight bag per couple on a 2 hour trip?  Is this doable?

I agree about a knowledgable local mechanic.  We have one of those for Beech products.  Best of both world - local guy who does most, if not all work, on Beeches.  I am hoping to find something similar for the Mooney but no luck yet.

[RJBrown]

My wife is 5'3" and under 120# I am 6' and over 215#. 4 people like us are about the FAA average of 170# per seat. For a 2 hour/ 300 nautical trip a J should start out with 35-40 gal of fuel. So 680# of people, 240# of fuel leaves 65# for pilot junk and baggage. Not much for bags. Because one of my daughters gets motion sick in the rear seat my wife has often ridden in the back. For her the seating is fine. With full fuel (384#) I can carry 600# or 2 adults 2 small kids and 100# of stuff. My plane is a 1990 with the 2900# gross.

 That said MOST flights are 2 or fewer people so weight really becomes a moot point. If you buy a plane for the last 5% of your flights you will pay for that capacity every flight. It will be far less expensive to own a M20J for 90%+ and rent for the rest than to pay to haul around 4 extra seats most of the time.

[carusoam]

If it fits in a J, than surely and M,R, or S is slightly larger in the back seat legroom and baggage area. 

Overall not much additional useful load though.

In case you want to look up additional information:

M20M - Bravo (turbo)

M20R - Ovation

M20S - Eagle

M20TN - Acclaim (turbo)

If you have the resources for an A36 and its operation, you are most likely open to any of these aircraft.

For my M20R, People who fly are eager to jump in the back.  People who don't fly are confused by only one door on the airplane....

If you want to be the fastest / highest in your neighborhood consider the turbo versions. 

For easy shopping comparisons, I often check the www.allamericanaircraft.com  website....

http://www.controller.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&setype=1&pcid=17527&dlr=1

-a-

[legallegend]

Thanks for the comments.  Unfortunately, I do not think a M20M or newer model is in the cards.  You can get a nice A36 for under $150,000.  I have not seen newer Mooneys with comparable panels for that cheap.  At bottom, I am afraid that the Bonanza is the better way to go, but there is something about the Mooney that draws me in.

[carusoam]

Feel free to share your comparisons,  I looked up controller for A36.  They are similar to Mooney, everything from dirt cheap / run out to astronomical / brand new....

I think there are fewer A36 under 150K than there are over, similar with M,R and S.....

Price seems to be a compromise of engine TT, airframe TT / age, Instrumentation. 

Enjoy the search.

Best regards,

- anthony -

[legallegend]

You are right on the wide variety of price and quality.

Of course we are basing everything on asking price, not actual selling price.  I am a member of a Beech message board and it seems that several quality planes have sold in the $140 to $175 range recently.  Yes there are planes selling $200,000 to $300,000 and more, but a friend of mine just bought a 1976 A36 with Smith speed mods, full Garmin (340, 430, 530, 327, GDL 69), JPI, 2008 paint, 2006 interior, 4500 TTAF, 1037 smoh, 521 STOH, NDH.  This one sold at the bottom of the aforementioned range.  It seems to me where the Bonanza's have the Mooney's when I have compared (recognizing we are talking totally different airplanes) is panel.

I went out to see the aforementioned A36 today.  If you are not familiar with A36s, there is no baggage extention behind the 3rd row in pre-1979 models unless you have an STC (very few of these).  This is what got me back to thinking Mooney.  If I have to take out the last row to have baggage space (other than between the front 2 rows, and the operating costs are more, and the purchase price (compared to a J) is more, and the useful is not much more, and the Mooney is faster, and I have to carry more fuel since I burn more so lower useful and on and on and on . . .

It just has me thinking.

[carusoam]

LL

I don't think you will go wrong with either brand.  May I suggest: Continue to refine your mission.  Pick a few examples, run the comparisons.  Enjoy the search.  Oshkosh is coming up soon.  Both brands will have "caravans" in the camping area.  You can find many to look at with enthusiastic owners to speak with.

When you are ready to buy, find the threads on pre-purchase inspections and purchase agreements for your financial protection....

My family of four has been in a Mooney for a little over 10 years.  The M20C is a bit small for people with legs.  The J is spacious.  The R came from the factory with a 6 cylinder engine and extra space. We started with a C and found an R while looking for a J. 

We looked at everything including twins, modified mooneys and Cirrus, but did not seriously consider anything other than Mooney since we had a very good M20C experience.

Best regards,

-a-

[legallegend]

Thanks Anthony.  I am glad to hear that the family of 4 fits the Mooney.  I will have to check out the R's and dream.

[FlyDave]

You may also want to consider a Mooney Missile if you don't want to deal with a turbocharged engine. They're less expensive than the Ovations.

Here's Rocket Engineering's web page on the missile:

http://www.rocketengineering.com/missile/performance.html

Here is a missile (still for sale) that I was close to buying until I bought my 201. It sounds like a great plane but I never saw or flew it:

http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=115938&listingType=true&IsInternal=True&dealerid=

Best of luck in your search!!

[scottfromiowa]

Actually Rocket Engineering made the "Rocket" that is turbo-charged and Missile Normally Aspirated engine.

[KSMooniac]

I've done some 4-up weekend trips in my '77 J.  It is a maximum-performance mission, but doable if everyone is not obese and you pack carefully.  I have a 1020 lb useful load, and this is adequate for 2 males/2 females, less-than-full-fuel, and weekend baggage.  I have a fuel totalizer with my JPI engine monitor, so I'm quite confident launching with say 42 gallons of gas (vs. 50 or 64 as those are normal markings) if I need to in order to stay under max gross weight (2740 lbs in my case). Without the engine monitor, a fuel dip-stick would likely suffice to determine exact fuel load, and then you would have to be sure of good weather and range from there...but the totalizer sure removes all worry about flying a trip down to minimum IFR reserves.  I wouldn't do such a trip in a mountainous region as the climb rate up high gets quite small, but for a flatland XC a 201 at max gross does very well.

I've never had a complaint about back seat room, and quite a few comments that pax were surprised how comfy it is back there.  My younger brother and I pretty much grew up in the back seats of a C model, but outgrew that as we got older.  You won't have that problem with a J!

All Mooneys are excellent IFR birds, so you would do fine getting the rating in one.  I got my IR in my college flying club and did my Mooney/complex transition during that period, so I got a few hours of IR instruction during my 10 hour checkout and am glad I did so.

Bonanzas are nice too...hard to go wrong with either.  Just make sure you get the W&B data for each individual plane you consider, and plan some sample trips with your 4 folks + bags and fuel.  I think you'll find that the lower fuel burn of the J might equalize any perceived useful load advantage of a Bonanza, unless you can convince yourself you'd fly an A36 much slower on a 4-up trip.  It is very, very hard to intentionally slow down to increase range on a given fuel load. 

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: legallegend

Thanks for the comments.  Unfortunately, I do not think a M20M or newer model is in the cards.  You can get a nice A36 for under $150,000.  I have not seen newer Mooneys with comparable panels for that cheap.  At bottom, I am afraid that the Bonanza is the better way to go, but there is something about the Mooney that draws me in.