Return to Flying and Mooney?

[PMcClure]

Those poor Greeks didn't understand calculus.  I do!

 

That is a classic Greek paradox called Zeno's paradox of motion.  

 

Let me confuse you if I may:  It can be stated more seriously so that even the engineer student can't possibly get the prize either.  If you can't get all the way there because you need to cross that halfway point, then the halfway point from there (the original 3/4 point) then the halfway point from there (the original 7/8 point) then you can't get all the way there so goes the argument, but the engineer student in the story is happy once he gets to the 15/16th's point and says good - close enough give me the prize.  But hold on young engineering student!  IF YOU CAN'T get all the way there, then you will have a problem getting to the 1/2 point, and likewise you would have a problem getting to the halfway point to the halfway point, the 1/4 point - you can't get to the 1/4 point which is one of the way points to the 1/2 point waypoint.  But wait, repeat the ad-infinitum....and you can't get anywhere!  The engineering student IS STUCK IN HIS SPOT, CAN'T MOVE AT ALL, not a single millimeter, and so can't get close enough even to cheat to grab the prize early, so he should sit down, just like the math major had good sense to in the first place.

 

Challenge (or as they say in my field of work, the solution is left as an exercise for the reader): I will solve this conundrum paradox if no one else can.  I am busy waxing skis on this snowy off day today!  Hint - the Greeks did not know calculus but I do...and there are several different arguments within the language of calculus, some of them are pretty easy.

Meanwhile the MBA has already order drinks and is exchanging numbers with our prize!  But we have a moral victory!

[PMcClure]

Meanwhile the MBA has already order drinks and is exchanging numbers with our prize!  But we have a moral victory!

As this was a calculus 101 class, the topic of the day was infinite series. And the series 1/n converges on 0 as n approaches infinity. So start walking. 

[aviatoreb]

Meanwhile the MBA has already order drinks and is exchanging numbers with our prize!  But we have a moral victory!

 

Nope - sit down MBA major.  You order drinks but the poor cabana boy can't get to you with drinks because he is stuck too.....and the sound waves can't get to him...and the MBA major goes thirsty in a conundrum of paradoxical thirst.

 

Plus none of the Mooney pilots can get their airplanes to the avgas pump.

[aviatoreb]

As this was a calculus 101 class, the topic of the day was infinite series. And the series 1/n converges on 0 as n approaches infinity. So start walking. 

 

PMcClure gets my like! +1  Well done sir.

 

But that is the wrong series.  It is the "geometric series" you want, sum_i=1^infty (1/2)^n=1/(1-(1/2)) - 1.

 

Or an even simpler discussion - you pass each halfway point twice as quickly (twice as often).  So you seem to have infinitely many to cross but you are crossing them in the limit infinitely quickly.

 

The math major get's the prize and the engineering and MBA majors eat math major dust while stuck in place by a wicked logical palindrome.

[aviatoreb]

Sorry - what were we talking about again?  Someone send me to thread hijack prison.

[PMcClure]

 

But that is the wrong series.  It is the "geometric series" you want, sum_i=1^infty (1/2)^n=1/(1-(1/2)) - 1.

 

Or an even simpler discussion - you pass each halfway point twice as quickly (twice as often).  So you seem to have infinitely many to cross but you are crossing them in the limit infinitely quickly.

 

 

Close enough!  Are we greek or geeks?! 

[larryb]

I don't think it's the cost of flying. Sure, flying is not cheap. But it's not that expensive either. A nice Mooney can be bought for the price of a luxury car. A year of operations, all-in including hanger, insurance, fuel, maintenance, costs roughly the amount of tuition for a single child at a private school.

 

I had a large break in my flying career also. I got my license, bought a plane, flew it around the west, and really enjoyed it. But once I'd done that it was time to take it to the next level with an instrument rating, longer trips, a different airplane, etc. Other things competed for my time and money, and I wound up selling and stopped flying. I could have continued to afford it but chose not to.

 

Fast forward a number of years, and I renewed my interest. I got my BFR at a local FBO, taking only 3 hours in a 172. Then I rented for a while to clean the rust off, bought a Mooney, got my instrument rating, and here we are! My wife and I use the plane for medium distance travel that is painful by car and impossible via airlines.

 

Larry

[jlunseth]

In the last ten years the changes in navigation systems have been major.  LORAN died, NDB's are being eliminated, and VOR's will probably go next.  WAAS GPS owns the world, and not far behind are the iPads on which we all carry our charts, approach plates, and various other things such as checklists and w&b calculators.  On rare occasion, maybe once or twice a year, I get to FL or the East Coast and find ATC still assigns some Victor airway routes, but for the most part ATC is now perfectly comfortable with direct routes that span hundreds of miles.  So are pilots.  All this means that pilots spend about 1/10th the time they used to be heads down in the cockpit.  Weather is also readily available with a proper receiver and display, so it is possible to see Tstorms and fronts hundreds of miles off and plan accordingly.  Weather information is far better, skew T log P is one advance, another is the "Flight Path Tool" on www.aviationweather.gov that allows very specific information on altitude and route of flight for just about any weather parameter, particularly icing probabilities and severity.  The FAA, however, still teaches "hunt and peck" navigation and the writtens have questions on RMI, NDB, finding distance and course remaining if, somehow, you happen to know without a GPS that you are 100 miles from your departure airport and 8 miles off course, with 120 miles to go.  The slowness of the FAA to adapt to change has not varied. 

 

In the near future, we are all going to have to have transponders that broadcast position and altitude, and in exchange we are going to get back traffic information, lots of debate about the best solutions for that.

 

The best news though, is that there is still nothing out there that is faster per BHP and more fuel efficient than a Mooney.

[phecksel]

Finance minister is NOT against this move.  We have a couple of other financial situations which will hopefully be resolved quickly.

 

Funny comment about the luxury car, I've been eyeing a MKZ for a few months now... guess that will get put on hold.

 

Stopped by one airport and they have a could of hangars available, and about what I expected in the price.

 

Talked to one flight instructor who uses his own plane.  125 wet and 27/41 (VFR/IFR) for his instruction.

 

Got a tip on who has become the local goto med guy.

 

Reached out to get some information on a plane for sale.

[N33GG]

That is not a paradox, and it doesn't take forever to reach the prize. It is a classic example of an infinite series that occurs in a finite amount of time. Like a perfect ball that always bounces one half of the height from which it falls. Infinite number of bounces, but in a finite amount of time.

You just have to have fast feet!

[N33GG]

Another Question: Are all odd numbers prime?

The math professor says: 1 is prime, 3 is prime, 5 is prime, 7 is prime, 9 is not prime. Therefore, all odd numbers are not prime!

The physicist says: 1 is prime, 3 is prime, 5 is prime, 7 is prime, 9 is not prime, 11 is prime, 13 is prime. Therefore, 11 and 13 are exceptions, and all odd numbers are prime!

The engineer says: 1 is prime, 3 is prime, 5 is prime, 7 is prime, 9 is prime, 11 is prime, 13 is prime, 15 is prime. Therefore, we engineers don't care what you call the numbers, we just use them!

[ghovey]

Wow, reading this thread I just figured out why younger folks don't want to learn to fly. They would have to hang out with us.

[aviatoreb]

Another Question: Are all odd numbers prime?

The math professor says: 1 is prime, 3 is prime, 5 is prime, 7 is prime, 9 is not prime. Therefore, all odd numbers are not prime!

The physicist says: 1 is prime, 3 is prime, 5 is prime, 7 is prime, 9 is not prime, 11 is prime, 13 is prime. Therefore, 11 and 13 are exceptions, and all odd numbers are prime!

The engineer says: 1 is prime, 3 is prime, 5 is prime, 7 is prime, 9 is prime, 11 is prime, 13 is prime, 15 is prime. Therefore, we engineers don't care what you call the numbers, we just use them!

 

 

Is pi prime?  ;-/

 

You forgot my friends the statisticians. The statistician says, 1 is prime, 3 is prime, 5 is prime, 7 is prime, 9 is not prime, 11 is prime, 13 is prime, 15 is not prime.  75% of all odd numbers are prime but the sample size is small and the confidence is low with the power of this statistic.

 

Wow, reading this thread I just figured out why younger folks don't want to learn to fly. They would have to hang out with us.

 

Maybe the Bonanza drivers over at Beechtalk are cooler than the geeks here at Mooneyspace?  :-O

[N33GG]

You can never have enough math. If I could start over, I would be a math professor.

What was this thread about?

[kmyfm20s]

I'm glad there are CEO's that can harness you propeller heads out there:)

[Jamie]

 

Is pi prime?  ;-/

 

I thought primes were only defined for integers.

 

INT(PI) is prime.

[Jamie]

You can never have enough math. If I could start over, I would be a math professor.

Screw that. I'd be an investment banker and retire at 30.

[BigTex]

Screw that. I'd be an investment banker and retire at 30.

And be a hangar bum?  That's assuming you're not already!

[Shadow722]

If I may, 12 yrs out of flying is not insignificant. However, it is NOT a show stopper either! I was in a similar situation when I got my J model couple years ago. The flight skills came right back and your previous Mooney time will be helpful.

Older 6-pack panel planes are looking affordable. That's what I got when I purchased, IFR capable and steady, she is my weekly commuting plane. But new avionics is needed for sure and I don't see the 'suits' in DC retracting any of their plans these days.

Since I learned on and flew carrier jets with 6-pack type panels, I have upgraded my J with some new stuff but essentially kept the retro look in place. GTN-650 with a squitter ADS-B out transponder, new audio panel and finally got the JPI monitor as well. Took out some pretty old stuff that isn't supported much anymore, that opened up space and now have a mini I-Pad mount in front of the right seat I can use that with a Stratus 2 and get the Wx, traffic, and an emergency AHRS if I really need it in a pinch. Can't give y'all a pirep on it yet, cause crankcase needed a repair and won't have it back for another week or so.

Guess I'm just not that into the whole glass thing yet.

We have to preach GA to keep it alive. Good going Mooneygirl! I have been doing occasional Pilots-N-Paws missions withou any problems. (Use car seat belt leash and seat cover in back seats, no problems, no crates thus far) It puts GA in a good light. I know there are other ways to spread the 'karma' and emphasize GA, so I encourage looking around. Heck, I even got my sorry mug and a rescued dog on the front cover of Hilton Head Monthly this past July standing in front of my J.

Good luck and fly safe.

[Marauder]

If I may, 12 yrs out of flying is not insignificant. However, it is NOT a show stopper either! I was in a similar situation when I got my J model couple years ago. The flight skills came right back and your previous Mooney time will be helpful. Older 6-pack panel planes are looking affordable. That's what I got when I purchased, IFR capable and steady, she is my weekly commuting plane. But new avionics is needed for sure and I don't see the 'suits' in DC retracting any of their plans these days. Since I learned on and flew carrier jets with 6-pack type panels, I have upgraded my J with some new stuff but essentially kept the retro look in place. GTN-650 with a squitter ADS-B out transponder, new audio panel and finally got the JPI monitor as well. Took out some pretty old stuff that isn't supported much anymore, that opened up space and now have a mini I-Pad mount in front of the right seat I can use that with a Stratus 2 and get the Wx, traffic, and an emergency AHRS if I really need it in a pinch. Can't give y'all a pirep on it yet, cause crankcase needed a repair and won't have it back for another week or so. Guess I'm just not that into the whole glass thing yet. We have to preach GA to keep it alive. Good going Mooneygirl! I have been doing occasional Pilots-N-Paws missions withou any problems. (Use car seat belt leash and seat cover in back seats, no problems, no crates thus far) It puts GA in a good light. I know there are other ways to spread the 'karma' and emphasize GA, so I encourage looking around. Heck, I even got my sorry mug and a rescued dog on the front cover of Hilton Head Monthly this past July standing in front of my J. Good luck and fly safe.

You mean this one? (Both of you look happy!) Let us know how the ES works with the iPad mini. Been going back and forth on how to get an "out" source to get better traffic input.

[scottfromiowa]

Close enough!  Are we greek or geeks?! 

Finally something I can answer...

Just kidding...

[scottfromiowa]

My son is working on his Civil Engineering degree. He is a "mini-me" except for his having math skills and his moms temperament...both awesome improvements on his dad. He, like me worked hard as a teenager and saved to purchase his first car. Just a few payments and his Audi A4 is all his. He works in a box stores automotive department changing oil and tires. He doesn't mind getting dirty. He LOVES TO FLY and "drives" whenever he is aboard, but is focused on school, his job and his number one love his Fender guitar. I think he will:

1. Be an excellent engineer

2. Be an excellent father

3. Own a speedboat

4. Be a pilot

Mooney owner? I don't know...You really have to have a mission or be in a co-owner/partnership to be able to in any way justify aircraft ownership (in my opinion). I still look at the money I have spent, am spending and will spend and shake my head...It is NOT logical to own an airplane...especially an old one that requires a lot of $/time and TLC to get into flying condition and maintain it there. There are going to be a LOT of airframes coming on the market in the next 20 years in various condition. The federal government needs to simplify the process...or there will be a lot of pilotless/ownerless airframes driving the price of ours down farther.

I got a Cayman S with the first half (sale to my co-owner) and wife gets second half (my promise to her) of plane when I sell some day, so....what me worry? It's ALL good.

[phecksel]

I used to fly indigent patients to treatment locations.  I enjoyed it so much I ran the local organization for about a year and a half.  Those flights are some of the most satisfying flights I made.  One of my favorite flights of all time was returning home after the flight.  New moon night, thick dense cirrus cloud layer, thick but light (not dense) low cloud layer.  The clouds were just lit up with the orange glow from the city.  I went from a fairly bright cockpit due to the city lights, to NOTHING but pitch darkness.  I almost requested an approach back into the airport, just so I could do that again!

[fantom]

phecksel and N6719N, PLEASE....

 

Help us, and that includes me, out by including your model, year, location and base, under your post count or in your signature block. I would help better understand your comments, issues, and advise. It would also get you more accurate feedback when you need it.

 

Thanks....

[rbuck]

So…concerning the younger generations and flying. It is true that there isn't a ton of interest in the younger generations right now. I'm part of them. I'm 26. But, I've got my license, own my own Mooney now (got it a few months ago), and fly as often as I can. And…for what it's worth, I majored in mechanical engineering. 

I think that the biggest barrier to younger folks flying is, actually, cost. Flying seems to be viewed as something that only the really rich folks can afford-even if (as some of you have pointed out)-that's not entirely the case. Perception can be reality. I think there's something to be said for video games making kids feel like their flying anyway, but I think it's a small thing. Even though I started flying 10 years ago when it was a little cheaper (I saved my money from working at an ice cream shop for lessons), operating costs are somewhat steep compared to airlines and even driving. I currently live in Seattle, but home is Denver. Flying my own plane round trip easily costs two or three times the price of an airline ticket both ways. Throw maintenance into the mix, and it isn't as cheap as we'd like. It just doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense to fly GA, especially for us younger folks who don't have a ton of savings or high paychecks. I have to move to Fort Benning, GA this spring, and I'm already saving just for the trip. It's going to cost a lot to move. 

All that being said, though, I think that there's more interest than we think. I get people almost every day that still ask if I really bought a plane, how much it costs, whether it would it be something they could afford too. I think it may take us younger folks a little longer to catch the bug, but it will come in time-especially when either (1) GA operating costs come down or (2) when we start making those better paychecks. For me, I'm going to be going back to school and plan on a couple of years of lean finances. But, I'm planning to keep my plane, maintain it well, fly when I can, and keep the dream alive as best I can.