Cross the Atlantic with a Mooney

[Oscar Avalle]

I was wondering what it takes to fly from the US in a Mooney to Europe. I know money, but what are the regulations, fuel, insurance, etc. how long does it take. etc.

[fantom]

Several cranial loose screws, a good seat cushion and a BIG pee bottle.

 

First class on American would be much less costly.

[Gone]

Oscar:

One of our members (Piloto) has done quite a bit of that. See if he chimes in here.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

It's been said an engine doesn't know if its flying over land or over water. I'm not so sure of that and as such I wouldn't have the mental fortitide nessessary to make such a trip. Flying the east coast of FL spoils a person. At 10k or higher its rear to be outside of gliding distance to an airport or suitable landing spot. I like that...a lot

[aviatoreb]

It's been said an engine doesn't know if its flying over land or over water. I'm not so sure of that and as such I wouldn't have the mental fortitide nessessary to make such a trip. Flying the east coast of FL spoils a person. At 10k or higher its rear to be outside of gliding distance to an airport or suitable landing spot. I like that...a lot

 

Yes they do - that's why engines sound funny when they are over water.

[Piloto]

With today GPS and weather forecast it is not as risky as 30 years ago. For an M20C there is essentially one route via Greenland and Iceland. The southern route via Santa Maria, Azores requires 1400nm + 20% range and definitely be HF equipped. On an M20C you will be departing from Goose Bay, CA (CYYR) and landing at (650nm) Narsarsuaq (BGBW) http://iserit.greennet.gl/bgbw/ Avoid landing on holidays or weekends to avoid the high fees. Veery important you check the winds before departure at http://aviationweather.gov/iffdp/fdwndh From BGBW fly to Reykjavik (BIRK) 650nm. At BIRK the hotel is just across the street from the office. Don't forget to check the souvenir store in the basement. From BIRK you can reach the northern part of the UK. I have never landed there since all the planes that I have ferried were able to make it into continental Europe from BIRK or Santa Maria (LPAZ) .

Of course you need to have with you a raft, inmersion suit, life jackets, PLB and a marine portable radio. Best plane for the trip is an Ovation with 130 gallons. Ideally you want to have 1800nm or more range to skip BGBW and northern UK stop Best time for the trip is in the summer to avoid battery, avionics and engine problems. CYYR high in the winter is -20F.

 

May the winds be on your tail

 

Jose 

 

[Oscar Avalle]

With today GPS and weather forecast it is not as risky as 30 years ago. For an M20C there is essentially one route via Greenland and Iceland. The southern route via Santa Maria, Azores requires 1400nm + 20% range and definitely be HF equipped. On an M20C you will be departing from Goose Bay, CA (CYYR) and landing at (650nm) Narsarsuaq (BGBW) http://iserit.greennet.gl/bgbw/ Avoid landing on holidays or weekends to avoid the high fees. Veery important you check the winds before departure at http://aviationweather.gov/iffdp/fdwndh From BGBW fly to Reykjavik (BIRK) 650nm. At BIRK the hotel is just across the street from the office. Don't forget to check the souvenir store in the basement. From BIRK you can reach the northern part of the UK. I have never landed there since all the planes that I have ferried were able to make it into continental Europe from BIRK or Santa Maria (LPAZ) .

Of course you need to have with you a raft, inmersion suit, life jackets, PLB and a marine portable radio. Best plane for the trip is an Ovation with 130 gallons. Ideally you want to have 1800nm or more range to skip BGBW and northern UK stop Best time for the trip is in the summer to avoid battery, avionics and engine problems. CYYR high in the winter is -20F.

 

May the winds be on your tail

 

Jose 

thanks for the information. How about insurance?

[Jerry 5TJ]

For the definitive description of the approach into BGBW ("Bluie West") check out Ernie Gann's Fate is the Hunter. 

[contrails]

A few years ago flying a B767 to Madrid, I heard a guy on guard ditching a 210 in the North Atlantic. A giant set of cajones is required to cross all that water in a single.

[Piloto]

thanks for the information. How about insurance?

Didn't have a problem with it. But I had over 3,000 hrs in Mooneys. Typically you ask for temporary or one trip coverage. For ferrys just for the trip coverage. On all ferry trips I was under the owner insurance. On personal trips it was under my insurance. Since the upcoming of GPS and accurate weather forecast the loss of planes doing this crossings has decreased. I know of three losses but they were on take off. Two on twins and one on a Bonanza. Most likely due to over gross conditions.

 

José  

[Piloto]

A few years ago flying a B767 to Madrid, I heard a guy on guard ditching a 210 in the North Atlantic. A giant set of cajones is required to cross all that water in a single.

LECU is my favorite GA airport in Madrid. BTW the two twins that tried to do the crossing before Lindbergh were lost but Lindbergh made it in a single. Amelia Earhart successfully crossed the Atlantic on a single but was lost over the Pacific on a twin (no cajones). The Apollo 11 Moon space ship was a single engine rocket and so was the Lander Eagle. So you need bigger cajones to go to the Moon on a single. And capt. Sully had to ditch his twin on the Hudson (No cajones grandes) because a couple of birds hit it. While a Mooney all may have is blood stains from the birds. Conclusion single pilots have bigger cajones than twin pilots.  

 

José 

[Dave Marten]

Right on Piloto!

 

Come on guys we're not talking about Lucky Charlie in '27.

 

Can be safely done in most Mooney models. Proper planning, patience, and sound judgement are key. Although for those of you who choose not to fly at night or in IMC I understand how a trip across the pond would seem like going to Mars!

 

A good friend of mine made the trip in a M20F a couple years ago (to France and back on his honeymoon). Happy to pass on his contact info (PM me) or he'd be happy to share his experience over a beer in the North 40. We'll also have a gent who his flying his Mooney to OSH from France, not to mention the TWO guys who just circumnavigated the GLOBE in their Mooneys: one Aussie (Banjo on this forum) and hopefully Jack Wiegand.

 

Two of my Bonanza buddies, Larry Gaines and Mark Merrill, are leaving this week for a flight over the North Pole in their Bonanza (and then to Oshkosh). Even 'legacy' GA aircraft are dependable, capable machines! 

 

Happy 4th, Celebrate your freedom - GO FLY! 

[carusoam]

Mike, We're going to need another poll...

Have you ever or do you intend to...cross the pond.

Best regards,

-a-

[201er]

I do

[AmigOne]

A few years ago flying a B767 to Madrid, I heard a guy on guard ditching a 210 in the North Atlantic. A giant set of cajones is required to cross all that water in a single.

To all the amigos in the forum, if you should have a long hair spanish dictionary I think she'll be more impressed if you have cojones (balls) and not cajones (drawers).

[Hank]

I do

The longest sentence in the world . . . . Oh, you meant that you DO plan to cross the pond. Sorry.

[triple8s]

I didnt ?????

[triple8s]

How much $ round trip in an Ovation? For fuel and fees not counting food and lodging? Wouldnt an Acclaim be better suited? Also how many days for the flight, barring weather delays?

[Piloto]

To all the amigos in the forum, if you should have a long hair spanish dictionary I think she'll be more impressed if you have cojones (balls) and not cajones (drawers).

But this is an English only forum and instead you should use the word "kohones" like in "Holly Kohones"

 

José

[carusoam]

NYC to London is 4,900 nm

An Ovation travels at 175 knots

= 28 hours

Burning less than 16gph

=448gallons

Price of 100LL $5/g

=$2240

Your mileage may vary.....

For long distance flights from West to East, I would prefer the speed of the turbo.

BA has flights for $681 for comparison.

How's my math?

Best regards,

-a-

[Oscar Avalle]

Your math is right on the money, although still low. You need to consider higher fuel prices in europe, insurance, hotels, etc. But ... who said we fly because it makes sense financially...

 

Oscar

NYC to London is 4,900 nm

An Ovation travels at 175 knots

= 28 hours

Burning less than 16gph

=448gallons

Price of 100LL $5/g

=$2240

Your mileage may vary.....

For long distance flights from West to East, I would prefer the speed of the turbo.

BA has flights for $681 for comparison.

How's my math?

Best regards,

-a-

[contrails]

But this is an English only forum and instead you should use the word "kohones" like in "Holly Kohones"

 

José

 

"Holy"  "Holly" to me is a wretched ex wife!

[Piloto]

How much $ round trip in an Ovation? For fuel and fees not counting food and lodging? Wouldnt an Acclaim be better suited? Also how many days for the flight, barring weather delays?

Assuming in an Ovation or Acclaim with 130 gals. One day to CYYR or CYYT, one day to BIRK or LPAZ, one day to Europe. Total fuel one way 300 gals. At $13/gal = $3900. Fees about $300. Round trip about 7 days and $8500. Coming back to the US you may have to stop at BGBW due to winds. The Acclaims offers no real advantage over the Ovation since you have to throttle back to get 1800nm range. The Ovation has the advantage of more flexibility on leaning because no need to worry about  exceeding TIT. On these trips speed is not the issue but fuel efficiency. Prevailing winds in the North Atlantic are from the west so coming back via LPAZ will require a ferry tank. Flores LPFL in the Azores has no AVGAS. In the event that you encounter strong headwinds best option is to fly low at about 3,000feet, better than swiming. ALWAYS CHECK WINDS BEFORE DEPARTING.

 

José

[flyboy0681]

that's why engines sound funny when they are over water.

 

So it's not only me?

[yvesg]

Fuel in Canada is $8 a gallon in the southern regions. Would be surprised if it is below $10 a gallon up north. Pleas recompute!

Yves