GTN 650 or 750?

[TWinter]

Any of you that had the 650 installed and wish you had done the 750?. I'm considering upgrading and trying to decide whether the extra $2500 is worth it. I can have the 650 installed with remote transponder etc for about $9050 (there is some trade-in allowance for my old stuff), or go with the 750 for about $2500 more. Currently I'm using a 696 w/ XM weather and the Zaon linked to the 696. I also use a IFly720 as a quick reference (yoke mounted). Radios are King w/ PS6000?

 

I'm a VFR pilot with intentions of Instrument later down the road. The rest of the plane, 1973 M20E is very solid with new exterior and interior. It's at about 1150 SMOH so lots of life left. I have no intentions at this point to trade or sell.  Avionics is the only thing left to upgrade. I know everyone always says, "what's your mission?". My mission is simple. I like to fly weekly usually 50-75 radius, working on some shorter XCs to gain more experience and would like to get into 500+ mile XC legs within the next year, but I also just enjoy upgrading my aircraft. I would like to upgrade, just not sure the price difference is worth it from 650 to 750? I like the 750 because I can upgrade the radios and clean up the panel. As far as the mission, well I treat my plane like many of you treat your favorite man toys..I enjoy fixing and adding to it as much as I do flying it. Just like most of our toys we never will get back what we put into them. I'm not looking at it as an investment, however, if a time came to sell I would have nice updated avionics to match the rest. I have no auto-pilot and manual trim...maybe later. Just looking at the 650 vs. 750 for now. Also, keep using the existing 696 w/ Zaon for traffic and weather or change it out while the barn-door is open? Change to what combination for traffic weather. GDL is spotty hear, but filling in quickly. Any ideas? Thanks.

[Bennett]

I think I can be objective here as I have both the GTN 750 and the GTN 650 mounted below it. I suggest

that if you will be installing one unit it be the GTN 750 as not only is screen bigger, and more

usable, but the GTN 750 shows both active and standby Com and Nav frequencies, while you have to

switch between them on the GTN 650. Also entering waypoints, (and 5 character alpha intersections) is much

easier on the GTN 750 as it has a full keyboard, instead of scrolling through the letters and numbers as required on the GTN 650. I also suggest the addition of the remote transponder and audio panel to the GTN 750 as this saves precious panel space, and the ease of use using the GTN 750 as the control head. You can port over

the XM to the GTN 750, or you might want to add the GDL 88 remote box which will give you NetGen

weather (not quite as good as the XM subscription service), but with ADS-B in/out you will have

excellent traffic presentation availability on the GTN 750, or the GTN 650. A remake of the Mooney

panel is expensive, and time consuming, and do not expect to recover more than about half of these

costs when you sell / trade your aircraft. My suggestion: Plan, plan, plan your layout and the

avionics. Doing work twice is even more expensive.

[RocketAviator]

I have both the 650 and the 750 and if I had to choose one it would definitely be the 750.  I fly a fair amount of IFR the 750 has a few options that the 650 does not but the screen size is the most significant difference and you especially notice when you have them one on top of the other.   I am sure you have already checked everything online (and wow there is a lot to check, especially if you check other than Garmin)

Here is a link to Garmin comparison product brochure if you are interested.

http://www8.garmin.com/aviation/pdfs/GTN_series_brochure.pdf

 

Fly Safe,

Rocket On,

[RocketAviator]

I think I can be objective here as I have both the GTN 750 and the GTN 650 mounted below it. I suggest

that if you will be installing one unit it be the GTN 750 as not only is screen bigger, and more

usable, but the GTN 750 shows both active and standby Com and Nav frequencies, while you have to

switch between them on the GTN 650. Also entering waypoints, (and 5 character alpha intersections) is much

easier on the GTN 750 as it has a full keyboard, instead of scrolling through the letters and numbers as required on the GTN 650. I also suggest the addition of the remote transponder and audio panel to the GTN 750 as this saves precious panel space, and the ease of use using the GTN 750. You can port over

the XM to the GTN 750, or you might want to add the GDL 88 remote box which will give you NetGen

weather (not quite as good as the XM subscription service), but with ADS-B in/out you will have

excellent traffic presentation availability on the GTN 750, or the GTN 650. A remake of the Mooney

panel is expensive, and time consuming, and do not expect to recover more than about half of these

costs when you sell / trade your aircraft. My suggestion: Plan, plan, plan your layout and the

avionics. Doing work twice is even more expensive.

Well said... Ditto!  Bennett

[TWinter]

I think I can be objective here as I have both the GTN 750 and the GTN 650 mounted below it. I suggest

that if you will be installing one unit it be the GTN 750 as not only is screen bigger, and more

usable, but the GTN 750 shows both active and standby Com and Nav frequencies, while you have to

switch between them on the GTN 650. Also entering waypoints, (and 5 character alpha intersections) is much

easier on the GTN 750 as it has a full keyboard, instead of scrolling through the letters and numbers as required on the GTN 650. I also suggest the addition of the remote transponder and audio panel to the GTN 750 as this saves precious panel space, and the ease of use using the GTN 750. You can port over

the XM to the GTN 750, or you might want to add the GDL 88 remote box which will give you NetGen

weather (not quite as good as the XM subscription service), but with ADS-B in/out you will have

excellent traffic presentation availability on the GTN 750, or the GTN 650. A remake of the Mooney

panel is expensive, and time consuming, and do not expect to recover more than about half of these

costs when you sell / trade your aircraft. My suggestion: Plan, plan, plan your layout and the

avionics. Doing work twice is even more expensive.

Thank you sir!!  That's the type of feedback I was looking for. I've been pondering this for quite a while and since the plane will be in for annual and I'll be heading (driving) to Osh there is no hurry to get it back. Timing has worked out well as I've managed to scrape up the funds and get it in for annual at the same time. I just want to do it once and do it right.  In addition, I'll hit the big 50 this year and the extra screen size helps if hear what I'm saying. LOL

[Marauder]

As Bennett points out, "plan, plan, plan". Knowing what you can afford now and what you want to add later is how I would approach this. I was in the same debate you were with the 750. I opted for the 650. Not because I didn't think the 750 had value, but because I was turned onto the Aspen stuff. My plane had two ILS capable CDIs and a DG. Once you go HSI, you will never go back!

 

With the Aspens sitting in front of me, I will only look at the 650 when I need to change a frequency or modify the flight plan. Everything else is on the Aspens. So... depending on your long range plans, you may want to opt for either an Aspen or Garmin G500. These units minimize the need for the big screen on the 750.

[rbridges]

2500 is relatively small compared to the overall price, and you spend quite a bit on labor itself; if you decide to upgrade later, it would definitely cost more than 2500.  Personally, I would probably go with the 750, also.

[Bennett]

B26 is absolutely right. There are more than one set of solutions, including multi-screen Aspens,or the

Garmin G500. Unfortunately there is no one perfect solution, and even if there was one today, it would

change tomorrow. My primary reasons for choosing the Garmin GTN 750/GTN 650/Aera 796 was for consistency

in shallow menus with similar iconry, and because I personally don't like the Aspen display. Nothing

against Aspen here, but I flew for about two years behind two Dynon glass screens, and I, and just me as

an old time pilot, found the altitude and airspeed tapes more distracting than helpful. I like "steam

gauge" presentations where I can see a "familiar" pointer angle, especially for airspeed. Finally, since I have a remote electric back-up AI (Mid-Continent LIfe Saver with battery back-up), and a remote

electric vacuum pump, I like the redundancy between vacuum and electric systems.

Because I really like Dynon as a company, I bought their D-1 portable EFIS to frankly

just play with. So I still have tapes for GPS airspeed, GPS altitude, and a VSI tape

as well. Hopefully, I will never have to use this back-up to a back-up, but I am sure

that if all else fails (Murphy was an optimist), I could make it down to safety with this instrument.

[TWinter]

B26 is absolutely right. There are more than one set of solutions, including multi-screen Aspens,or the

Garmin G500. Unfortunately there is no one perfect solution, and even if there was one today, it would

change tomorrow. My primary reasons for choosing the Garmin GTN 750/GTN 650/Aera 796 was for consistency

in shallow menus with similar iconry, and because I personally don't like the Aspen display. Nothing

against Aspen here, but I flew for about two years behind two Dynon glass screens, and I, and just me as

an old time pilot, found the altitude and airspeed tapes more distracting than helpful. I like "steam

gauge" presentations where I can see a "familiar" pointer angle, especially for airspeed. Finally, since I have a remote electric back-up AI (Mid-Continent LIfe Saver with battery back-up), and a remote

electric vacuum pump, I like the redundancy between vacuum and electric systems.

Because I really like Dynon as a company, I bought their D-1 portable EFIS to frankly

just play with. So I still have tapes for GPS airspeed, GPS altitude, and a VSI tape

as well. Hopefully, I will never have to use this back-up to a back-up, but I am sure

that if all else fails (Murphy was an optimist), I could make it down to safety with this instrument.

Thanks and well said..I took a look back at your prior thread showing your updated panel..WOW. Very nice. It was good to see the screen size difference. I'm thinking doing similar by using mounting the 696 adjacent in a docking kit. Thanks again for all the various feedback and pireps. Leaning heavy toward the 750 at this point.

[Bennett]

If you are serious about mounting the 696 in an AirGizmo mount, I would suggest using the 796 instead.

The price has dropped on the 796, and it is a touch screen like the GTN series. The icons, menus, and

presentation of data is much like the GTN series. If you do this, note that the AirGizmo panel mount is designed to hold an avionics fan on the back of the mount. The 796 tends to run a bit hot, and the fan takes care of this.

[scottfromiowa]

Thank you sir!!  That's the type of feedback I was looking for. I've been pondering this for quite a while and since the plane will be in for annual and I'll be heading (driving) to Osh there is no hurry to get it back. Timing has worked out well as I've managed to scrape up the funds and get it in for annual at the same time. I just want to do it once and do it right.  In addition, I'll hit the big 50 this year and the extra screen size helps if hear what I'm saying. LOL

sorry, Iturned 50 in September and couldn't read this without my readers...

[Bob_Belville]

I have a '66 E and my philosophy about cost is similar to yours. I wanted to build a well thought out panel that would make my flying safer and easier even when I need to fly IFR and skirt weather. I went with a 750 and an Aspen. I already had a Stormscope and an autopilot, both of which would have ranked high on my need to have list. I had XM weather on the 696 but added a GDL 88 putting the weather (and traffic) on the 750. And I still had room for the rather large JPI 930.

 

Enjoy the process.

[larryb]

I have a 650, GDL88, and 796 panel docked, and a single tube Aspen. One thing I will say is that with the smaller screen on the 650, displaying traffic over the map is too cluttered. Too hard to really identify traffic with the map there too. So I find myself using the 650 on the dedicated traffic page and using the 796 for the moving map. I've even pondered getting a GDL39 so I can see traffic on my 796. Too bad the GDL88 won't talk to the 796.

 

For those with a GDL88 and 750, how do you manage traffic and map displays?

 

I was nervous going with the 750 because that would require the remote mount transponder and remote mount audio panel. I was worried about the single point of failure, if that 750 goes blank, I'm pretty much grounded. If my 650 fails, I have other equipment I can fly with.

 

Larry

[Bob_Belville]

Larry, you'll note I opted for a panel mounted transponder and audio panel with the same concerns you have. (I can operate the xponder either directly or through the 750.) Traffic on the 750 is fine on the base map along with navigation info and weather. I love it.

[Marauder]

I have a 650, GDL88, and 796 panel docked, and a single tube Aspen. One thing I will say is that with the smaller screen on the 650, displaying traffic over the map is too cluttered. Too hard to really identify traffic with the map there too. So I find myself using the 650 on the dedicated traffic page and using the 796 for the moving map. I've even pondered getting a GDL39 so I can see traffic on my 796. Too bad the GDL88 won't talk to the 796. For those with a GDL88 and 750, how do you manage traffic and map displays? I was nervous going with the 750 because that would require the remote mount transponder and remote mount audio panel. I was worried about the single point of failure, if that 750 goes blank, I'm pretty much grounded. If my 650 fails, I have other equipment I can fly with. Larry

I came through the same thought process you did Larry about the single point of failure on the 750. I believe the default is your Nav 2. But not certain about the remote transponder. That said, you don't need to use the remote stuff. A standard audio panel and transponder would work fine. What took me down the 650 path was the Aspen MFD. All of the map, weather and terrain can be placed on that display. My logic was that I would rather be looking straight ahead at it rather than looking over to the right to see it. If I'm a good boy, I heard Santa might consider getting me the third display for Christmas. So far, I have been a bad boy spending way more than I should be. This avionics stuff is like cosmetic surgery. You are never done.

[Marauder]

Larry, you'll note I opted for a panel mounted transponder and audio panel with the same concerns you have. (I can operate the xponder either directly or through the 750.) Traffic on the 750 is fine on the base map along with navigation info and weather. I love it.

Bob -- you are scary me! Finishing my thoughts before I can type them in!

[Bennett]

Traffic: I display traffic on the GTN 650 to avoid cluttering up the GTN 750 screen. I keep the 750 moving map at longer range than the 650 (normally the 6 mile ring) so while traffic will show on the 750, I really track targets ( in the relative mode) on the 650. I am continuing my XM subscription, and I display the XM weather on the 796. I am not impressed with the NEXGen weather from ADS-B in/out from the GDL 88, so I don't use it a an overlay on the 750. In the event that the 750 should fail, com reverts to com 2 (650 in my case). I have tested this and it works fine. As I understand it, if the 750 dies in flight, the transponder will remain on its last setting. I've had the 750 for about a year now and it has proved reliable.

[TWinter]

sorry, Iturned 50 in September and couldn't read this without my readers...

Scott, So true my friend..I think I have a set in every room and two in the plane..Getting old is a bit**. First it's the eyes to go, the rest is down hill from here.  .     October we have to start a mini tune-up, get the diet right with more exercise. The medical is due in December.

[TWinter]

I have a '66 E and my philosophy about cost is similar to yours. I wanted to build a well thought out panel that would make my flying safer and easier even when I need to fly IFR and skirt weather. I went with a 750 and an Aspen. I already had a Stormscope and an autopilot, both of which would have ranked high on my need to have list. I had XM weather on the 696 but added a GDL 88 putting the weather (and traffic) on the 750. And I still had room for the rather large JPI 930.

 

Enjoy the process.

Bob, very nice, clean and covers all the bases. Sharp!!

[M016576]

If you're totally sold on an aspen or G500/600, I'd get a 430W used and save myself 8-10K. You'd probably only use the slick 650/750 interface to enter flight plans in that case (those sweet MFD's are literally designed to be one stop shopping for situational awareness). Now if you're retaining the original ADI / HSI, a 750 would be a great way to get additional SA(moving map, magenta line, possible remote mounts). If money's no factor, pimp as desired ;-)

[yvesg]

sorry, Iturned 50 in September and couldn't read this without my readers...

Scott, what date in september? Me too 50 then.

Yves

[larryb]

If you're totally sold on an aspen or G500/600, I'd get a 430W used and save myself 8-10K.

I'd take the opposing position. I doubt you'd save 8K with a 430 vs. 650. In the long term I don't think there is any savings at all to be had. Used 430's are expensive, and the install cost is the same. And now you are stuck with old technology. The GTN 650 has a resolution of 600 x 256 pixels. A 430 has a resolution of 240 x 128.

[larryb]

Larry, you'll note I opted for a panel mounted transponder and audio panel with the same concerns you have. (I can operate the xponder either directly or through the 750.) Traffic on the 750 is fine on the base map along with navigation info and weather. I love it.

Yeah, I wanted the panel mount 796. So I didn't have enough room in a single stack for 750, audio panel, transponder, auto pilot, annunciator panel, and the sl30 2nd nav/com. I would have had to go with the remote txp and audio panel in order to fit a 750 and 796 side-by-side.

[Marauder]

If you're totally sold on an aspen or G500/600, I'd get a 430W used and save myself 8-10K. I'd take the opposing position. I doubt you'd save 8K with a 430 vs. 650. In the long term I don't think there is any savings at all to be had. Used 430's are expensive, and the install cost is the same. And now you are stuck with old technology. The GTN 650 has a resolution of 600 x 256 pixels. A 430 has a resolution of 240 x 128.

I will second that. A used 430W is still commanding $6-7k plus on the used market. For $9kish, you are in a 650. Installation cost was exactly the same for both. I did get to play with a 430 and the GTN was easier for me than all the buttons on the 430W.

[Bennett]

True about the delta between a 430W and a GTN 650, at least in my case. Initially I had a 430W under my GTN 750. I was able to trade in the 430 W with a credit against a new GTN 650. The cost was $2,000 plus installation, which was reasonable. The units are not pin compatible, but the new wiring and connectors were not a big deal. The GTN 650 is a far superior box, in my opinion. Had I gone with the GTN 650 initially, I would not have paid for two installations.