Any Interest in an AC/Ice Box Product - Gauging Interest ???

[kmyfm20s]

I know I am on the extreme side of needs as a potential customer but here is what I would want. I commute often for work so it has to be functional and fit into the routine.  I fly from the cool coast landing at 7:30am to the hot desert were the plane sits in the sun until I leave in the peak heat of the day. Going to the desert in the morning it is cool enought that it is not necessary for the A/C but deffinately when I leave in temperatures commonly at 105 plus it would be great!.  I do cover my plane and leave bagage door proped open and pilot window open to allow circulation so the interior isn't cooking when I get in. Even though I am sure the FBO has Ice I would prefer to stock pile ice in my chest freezer in the Hangar. This way I can toss it into the cooler as part of the pre-flight and not hold me up at the end of the day when I am ready to go home. I rather sweat 15 minutes in the plane than sweat at the FBO waitng for ice and having to load it. So here is my wish list!

 

1.Excellent cooler to maintain ice through out the day until departure.

2.Soft cover with multiple handles to manuver the cooler into place, add to the insulating properties and to prevent scuffing.

3.Ability to drain melted Ice and water with out lifting the cooler out of the plane.

4.Integrated deep cycle battery to last though preflight to get the initial cabin cool before the onboard power is available. Shore power as well.

5.Remote on/off.

6.Able to fit through a Mooney baggage door!

 

I will add more as I think of it but hope this helps.

[David Mazer]

1.Excellent cooler to maintain ice through out the day until departure.

2.Soft cover with multiple handles to manuver the cooler into place, add to the insulating properties and to prevent scuffing.

3.Ability to drain melted Ice and water with out lifting the cooler out of the plane.

4.Integrated deep cycle battery to last though preflight to get the initial cabin cool before the onboard power is available. Shore power as well.

5.Remote on/off.

6.Able to fit through a Mooney baggage door!

 

This is a very interesting list.  I especially like the multiple handles since it can be difficult to manipulate.  I'm concerned with the idea of a rechargeable battery because of the additional weight that might add.  My unit is already about 40 lbs full and another 5 - 10 for a battery (more, less?) .  The draining of water was an option on the ArcticAir that I had to dismantle because that was the reason they used the much smaller tubing through out the system and it just reduced the cooling strength too much.  I just siphon out the water.

 

I've been thinking about the shape of the box a little as I've been PMing with Phil.  My current unit is longer and wider than tall but I wonder if a taller rather than longer unit wouldn't be easier to get through the baggage door and take up less floor space than the current unit.  The downside is the greater tipping potential I suppose.

 

I also resist taking ice for later use as 32 degree ice is far less effective than 0 degree ice and ice sitting in your cooler all day will be warming up regardless of the cooler's insulating power especially with the water already added that will, by definition, be greater than 32 degrees.

 

You might want to add to your wish list a good directable vent.  The ArcticAir's is pretty good and the B-cool vent looks a little sub-par.

[HopePilot]

The shape that would make it able to get into a Mooney hatch (more vertical) might mean that it needs to be velcroed into place once in the baggage area.

[Hank]

Add something to loop a seatbelt through. It should be cargo-hatch compatible, but I want to put it in the back seat. That's closer to me, and the wife's suitcase was specifically purchased [with tape measure in hand] to fit through the cargo hatch and stand upright in the back. Us short-bodies don't have a very large baggage area, and I routinely stack mine to the ceiling. The cooler will have to go in the back seat, or stay behind where it won't cool me . . .

[kmyfm20s]

This is a very interesting list.  I especially like the multiple handles since it can be difficult to manipulate.  I'm concerned with the idea of a rechargeable battery because of the additional weight that might add.  My unit is already about 40 lbs full and another 5 - 10 for a battery (more, less?) .  The draining of water was an option on the ArcticAir that I had to dismantle because that was the reason they used the much smaller tubing through out the system and it just reduced the cooling strength too much.  I just siphon out the water.

 

I've been thinking about the shape of the box a little as I've been PMing with Phil.  My current unit is longer and wider than tall but I wonder if a taller rather than longer unit wouldn't be easier to get through the baggage door and take up less floor space than the current unit.  The downside is the greater tipping potential I suppose.

 

I also resist taking ice for later use as 32 degree ice is far less effective than 0 degree ice and ice sitting in your cooler all day will be warming up regardless of the cooler's insulating power especially with the water already added that will, by definition, be greater than 32 degrees.

 

You might want to add to your wish list a good directable vent.  The ArcticAir's is pretty good and the B-cool vent looks a little sub-par.

During the summer months I would plan on just leaving the unit in the plane. It was my assumtion that you would first put the cooler in the plane then add the ice, then either pump or syphon the water out. At least thats how I would handle it in my case. So the additional weight of a small motorcycle size battery to power the unit for maybe 20 minutes to precool the cabin, preflight and start up the plane would make it much more functional than having to unplug and handle an extension cord. Both have weight and volume but unplugging and handling the extension cord would cause the cabin to heat back up. So when I get back to the hanger I would drain the water and plug in the battery.

With a soft cover over a hard cooler with many handles that can serve as lash points, shape shouldn't be a problem. With the way I described that I would load the ice and drain the water with it in place, it just has to be able to fit through the baggage door, it can be manipulated after that.

I also agree that 32 degree ice is not as great as 0 degree but my experience is unless your FBO sells bags of it out of a freezer, machine ice is wet and not 0 degrees. As I mentioned I have a chest freezer in my hangar,I would plan on making my own block ice and buying cube ice(Costco). In the morning put a block with some cubes around it. I figure by the time the ice melts down from sitting in the cooler I would not have to add the water.

Yes, directable vent is needed!

[David Mazer]

I don't find pre-cooling to be necessary.  The unit cools the plane almost immediately.  It isn't anything like pre-heating.  You don't really need to plug it in and lug cords.  I do leave the unit in the plane all the time unless I know I'll need the space.  Empty it doesn't weigh much at all.  I load ice and water and drain it while it is in the plane.  My concern with the battery isn't in putting it in and out but the weight and balance effect.  Granted, a battery isn't a big deal but things do add up if you don't pay attention along the way.

 

It really is something of a hassle when all is said and done but, for me in Florida, it is very worthwhile.

[ChrisH]

I'm sure this is a lot more expensive, but anyone have any experience with

http://www.flightlineac.com/home

[bumper]

I'm sure this is a lot more expensive, but anyone have any experience with

http://www.flightlineac.com/home

 

It may be "portable" but it's still going to require installation, as any air conditioner that uses a compressor will need to vent heated air to the outside, either directly or via the tailcone etc.

 

bumper

[carusoam]

From the DC A/C unit above...

Duct waist heat into the tail cone and past electronic equipment...

This would make a nice substitute for Charley weights planted in the tail!

Make a vented battery access panel for summer use.

Run it backwards and use it as a heat pump to preheat the cabin in the winter.

28v, 41 Lbs as described. Didn't see the current load???

Best regards,

-a-

[ChrisH]

Looking at the website, the electric 10,000btu model for lancair draws 50amps, so I'd say it's a good guess to the load for this unit as well.  I agree with you installation, amazing how useful those pixies can be around the airplane. 

[Jeff_S]

It always seemed to me that pumping cool moist air into the cockpit could be a recipe for disaster, especially in the humid south. Maybe I don't really know how these things work. But I'm with the crowd that says in the summer months, I simply dress for the heat and plan to get to altitude as quickly as possible.  A little bit of sweat is good for the soul, don't you think?

[David Mazer]

You'd be surprised how little humidity this adds.  The air isn't picking up too much water since there is a heat exchanger involved.  This isn't a mister or even a swamp cooler.  The cold water runs through a heat exchanger and the air blows over that.  The same idea as the radiator or oil cooler.

 

You can dress cool or go naked for that matter, it is still hot here in the summer as I'm sure it is in Atlanta.

[kmyfm20s]

You'd be surprised how little humidity this adds.  The air isn't picking up too much water since there is a heat exchanger involved.  This isn't a mister or even a swamp cooler.  The cold water runs through a heat exchanger and the air blows over that.  The same idea as the radiator or oil cooler.

 

You can dress cool or go naked for that matter, it is still hot here in the summer as I'm sure it is in Atlanta.

The heat exchanger actually pulls the moisture out of the air as condensation. So in humid environments you could have some puddles forming under the unit, although the fan might put the condensation right back in the air and having a net effect of zero.

Depends on the passenger choice but going naked might have a net increase in the humidity:)

[Dale]

I live in south Florida and I use an arctic air during the summer months. I also used my arctic air with my flight instructor when I was doing some training and it made the time in the air totally enjoyable on an otherwise 95 degree day out. My flight instructor liked it so much he bought one to use with his students.

I have switched away from block ice (which worked very well) and I am using a commercial product, that will freeze down to zero and is colder and lasts longer than regular ice. It is called nu ice, the commercial grade. I have a commercial freezer where I can get the temps that low to get the commercial nu ice to that low a temperature. It will last longer and cool lower than regular ice. I place the nu ice in a plastic bag to keep it dry. Although I have not had it freeze the water in my artic air, I have been told that it can do so.

I use the artic air extensively during the summer down in south Florida and in the Florida keys, where I spend a lot of my summer months flying. My passengers love it and it makes sight seeing at lower altitudes enjoyable for everyone in the airplane. If you have your artic air set up correctly, it is easy to use and really makes flying and taxiing in the summer heat a nonissue.

[Guest]

Update - We have 2-3x prototypes in testing right now, and tuning the longevity of the IceBox, with various parts and suppliers.

 

Our design is Not the typical AutoMotive Heat Exchanger/Routed Lid model that everyone else is using. We're really happy with the current design layout, as its going to be much easier to use in crowded Summer cabins than the current models.

 

We have 6x pilots on the Intro $250 special ('kickstarter phase') and then we're gonna go into full production and raise the price to the normal retail one.

 

If anyone else is interested to be involved during this phase, let us know

support@switchboxcontrol.com

[Guest]

All messages replied to, thanks for reaching out everyone.

[carusoam]

Any pictures yet Phillip?

Or is this in the top secret phase still?

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

We've gotten a lot of emails and pre-orders on the $250 Intro-Price. Still being elusive on the features and design, because we need to send you guys real-life data on the cold temps and duration we've achieved.

 

Give us another week and we will post pictures of the near-finished Production model, and the new retail price that makes sense. All the comments here have really helped. This has been a group effort and a lot of fun for everyone involved!

 

We've gotten a good amount of the 'kick starter' funding from all the pilots here, on the cheaper $250 price and its helped get all the testing done.

 

If anyone wants to be involved at this Intro Special, we setup a simple site for another day for you, then we will take it down.

http://switchboxcontrol.com/icebox/

 

Not too much info yet or images, taking our time to get it right; Then the site will change with the new price and photos.

[thinwing]

I wonder what a dry ice (frozen co2)would do and if the outgassing co2 would prove dangerous in the cockpit....I think a sealed unit with an exaust tube to the tail would mitigate that same as battery acid fumes.It would be a hassle but dry ice is always availble at super markets sold out of insulated freezers.....so a flat heat exchanger air in air out ..5 lbs of dry ice would be all it would take for the same cooling effect as 20 lbs of water ice....hmmmmm...feds would never approve it but...

[carusoam]

CO2 could cause a danger, most likely on the ground with little air movement. A friend had a plane full of medical products to deliver. It was in dry ice.

Fortunately, a human can sense the increasing levels of CO2. Unlike CO.

Unfortunately, the plane will be kept as air tight as possible to try and keep the cold in.

Would have made a nice alternative to draining water.

Best regards,

-a-

[Dale]

There are many small portable co2 scrubbers on the market. If someone could figure out how to integrate one of these scrubbers in one of these ice air conditioning systems you would really have something.

[bumper]

Would have made a nice alternative to draining water.

Best regards,

-a-

 

To avoid the need to drain water, if a hangar freezer is available, how 'bout using frozen water bottles? A spacer grid could be used to allow air flow between the bottles.

 

bumper

[David Mazer]

I've tried the frozen water bottle idea.  Seemed logical but the bottles just don't work nearly as well and then, if your traveling, your stuck with the bottles of water for the return trip taking up useful space.

[PTK]

Assuming a 5 grand pill can be swallowed and justified for something used a couple months out of the year, (another story for a different day!) are there any operational drawbacks to this unit?

http://www.arcticaircooler.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=80

Would there be any power or current draw concerns? Start peak is 40 amps but levels out at ~20 amps.

[David Mazer]

I think you mean the "real a/c".  Your link took me to the coolers. Yes, there are.  It is a permanent installation so you carry the weight around all the time (it isn't as easy to install and remove as they imply).  It is supposed to be off during takeoff and landing.  There is a significant amount of installation cost.  Most airplanes require a second alternator or a much larger alternator installed. The ducting is the same as for the cooler but the unit is installed in the tail cone  making it necessary to cut a hole for it (I know some one that tried to tie it into the planes overhead air vents with very bad results).  I think you also need a hot air exhaust through the plane.