Windows 8 Based Electronic Flight Bag

[Txbyker]

I have been an iPAD early adopter using Foreflight since the beginning.  The new Windows Surface with Windows 8 looks very appealing with its ability to use all Windows programs, Adobe Flash, HDMI, and full USB.  I am thinking about buying one for business.  I don't want to carry two tablets around, one for flight and one for everything else.

 

I checked with Foreflight and they don't plan a Windows version.  Does anyone have any suggestions for a Windows based EFB?

 

Russ

[AndyFromCB]

Surface sucks, plain and simple. It's like running the latest version of Foreflight on iPad 1, everything has that annoying delay. Also, you can't run regular  windows apps on surface tablet, sorry. Different processor. You'd have to buy Surface Pro, not out yet and I bet you the battery on that will last an hour running regular app. The reason why tables last so long on a single charge is that the OS and apps are specifically designed to sleep between processor cycles.

 

I do a lot of tablet development for agriculture so I've been playing with the surface for a while.

[201er]

[Txbyker]

Surface sucks, plain and simple. It's like running the latest version of Foreflight on iPad 1, everything has that annoying delay. Also, you can't run regular  windows apps on surface tablet, sorry. Different processor. You'd have to buy Surface Pro, not out yet and I bet you the battery on that will last an hour running regular app. The reason why tables last so long on a single charge is that the OS and apps are specifically designed to sleep between processor cycles.

 

I do a lot of tablet development for agriculture so I've been playing with the surface for a while.

Yes, Surface RT is limited but the new Windows 8 Surface due out 2/8.  Can replace my notebook computer. 

[AndyFromCB]

Yes, Surface RT is limited but the new Windows 8 Surface due out 2/8.  Can replace my notebook computer. 

 

Like I said, have fun running out of battery every 2 hours or so. I have a pre-release surface for development testing and it sucks power down at a rapid pace...

[Txbyker]

Like I said, have fun running out of battery every 2 hours or so. I have a pre-release surface for development testing and it sucks power down at a rapid pace...

Thanks. I didn't realize. Will be a good solution when it works someday at least for the way I use it. It would be nice to use a Foreflight Windows version from the office, maybe plan a flight and save to cloud, then file later from your iPhone or iPad. Used to have two paths Windows and Apple. Now with the explosion of smart devices you've got so many paths that don't or won't talk to each other.

[bd32322]

Thanks. I didn't realize. Will be a good solution when it works someday at least for the way I use it. It would be nice to use a Foreflight Windows version from the office, maybe plan a flight and save to cloud, then file later from your iPhone or iPad. Used to have two paths Windows and Apple. Now with the explosion of smart devices you've got so many paths that don't or won't talk to each other.

Yeah the surface RT cannot run all the wi dows apps because it has an ARM processor. The surface pro does have an intel processor and can run all the windows apps but has 4-5 hour battery life. Not good enough for flying.

However there are other tablets and ultrabook covertibles with intel processors that will run everything and have a long battery life. The companies most likely to provide windows EFB solutions will probably be seattle avionics (voyager software i think) or Essential flight.

Search for lenovo helix (detachable screen works as tablet or when attached is a tablet), lenovo ideapad yoga, asus Taichi etc.

I was a foreflight ipad early adopter, mostly because there were no good windows tablets. I was a very early adopter of windows tablets in 2003 .. but then the hardware was too bulky to be worthwhile. I think the new hardware coming out is very good tho and the old jokes about windows blue screens are a thing of the past at least i havent seen any on windows 7 at work and windows phone 7 and 8 reviews have been stellar.

[bd32322]

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/tablets/shop-tablets.html

That shows a bunch more tablets than i described earlier .. However you will have to search separately to get to their specs on battery life. (example battery life, Acer iconia w510 - 9 hours in tablet mode, if you attach a keyboard to it which has a battery of its own its 18 hours)

Anything with an intel atom cpu will give you good battery life with lower performance compared to the higher power intel cpus (e.g. In surface), but the Atom tablets will still be faster or comparable to ARM based tablets like ipad etc. And they will run all windows programs, linux etc if thats what you want.

If you want the higher end intel cpus with day long battery life, you will have to wait till middle of this year for the haswell cpus as announced by intel.

[David Mazer]

I have no idea about Surface or Windows 8 but I have been using Seattle Avionics Voyager EFB and like it a lot.  It  runs on a Windows platform.

[Hank]

I would never use anything from Microsoft for safety purposes of any kind, especially in flight! Ctrl-Alt-Del, reboot during an approach in actual would not be my idea of a good time. I neither like nor trust anything they make, I use it only because I have to at work. My tablet is Droid, and I still use my Linux netbook sometimes. Both boot almost immediately after pressing the button, unlike MS Windows, which generally takes 3-4 minutes from button press here at work. In the air?? "No thank you" is far too polite of an expression! YGBSM!! Windows??? on an approach in actual?? I'd feel just as safe flying blind, closing my eyes and taking my best shot.

[AndyFromCB]

I would never use anything from Microsoft for safety purposes of any kind, especially in flight! Ctrl-Alt-Del, reboot during an approach in actual would not be my idea of a good time. I neither like nor trust anything they make, I use it only because I have to at work. My tablet is Droid, and I still use my Linux netbook sometimes. Both boot almost immediately after pressing the button, unlike MS Windows, which generally takes 3-4 minutes from button press here at work. In the air?? "No thank you" is far too polite of an expression! YGBSM!! Windows??? on an approach in actual?? I'd feel just as safe flying blind, closing my eyes and taking my best shot.

 

Actually, Windows XP embedded is a very stable platform and you'd be surprised how much avionics out there run on it, for example, Garmin GMX200 and almost all of Avidyne's gear.

[Hank]

Sorry, a, I can't make my keyboard shudder like I just did . . . . .  "blue screen of death" takes on new meaning in the air vs. sitting in a chair in my living room.

[AndyFromCB]

Sorry, a, I can't make my keyboard shudder like I just did . . . . .  "blue screen of death" takes on new meaning in the air vs. sitting in a chair in my living room.

Hank,

 

There are major differences between the consumer versions, with all the junk installed plus add some spyware and viruses vs the embedded and server platforms that run the world. We have quite a few Windows 2008 servers in our company that have never been shut down since they were installed and run just peachy ;-)

 

But when it comes to consumer grade products, MS just does not seem to be able to execute anymore vs the competition.

[bd32322]

I would never use anything from Microsoft for safety purposes of any kind, especially in flight! Ctrl-Alt-Del, reboot during an approach in actual would not be my idea of a good time. I neither like nor trust anything they make, I use it only because I have to at work. My tablet is Droid, and I still use my Linux netbook sometimes. Both boot almost immediately after pressing the button, unlike MS Windows, which generally takes 3-4 minutes from button press here at work. In the air?? "No thank you" is far too polite of an expression! YGBSM!! Windows??? on an approach in actual?? I'd feel just as safe flying blind, closing my eyes and taking my best shot.

You can go to your nearest tech store and try and boot a windows phone or put it to sleep and wake it up and see how many seconds it takes? Its on par with any handheld device. Phones do not have control alt delete, yet millions are using the windows phone just fine - thats because it is not the same as a windows pc operating system. Having said that, i have had foreflight, safari and apple ios also crash on me although Apple controls both hardware and software... Except apple is clever enough to not leave an embarassing screen behind

[Txbyker]

I would never use anything from Microsoft for safety purposes of any kind, especially in flight! Ctrl-Alt-Del, reboot during an approach in actual would not be my idea of a good time. I neither like nor trust anything they make, I use it only because I have to at work. My tablet is Droid, and I still use my Linux netbook sometimes. Both boot almost immediately after pressing the button, unlike MS Windows, which generally takes 3-4 minutes from button press here at work. In the air?? "No thank you" is far too polite of an expression! YGBSM!! Windows??? on an approach in actual?? I'd feel just as safe flying blind, closing my eyes and taking my best shot.

I only use iPad for planning and filing. 796 for navigation. Do you use you device for approaches?

[David Mazer]

I had some problems with stability when I had the XM weather on Voyager but when I moved that to the Aspen units, the tablet became very stable once it is running properly.  I have had to restart the computer a few times prior to departure for some unknown glitch but after that it usually runs well.

[nivekv]

@txbyker - Don't listen to what anyone has said about the Surface RT's performance, stability, or battery life unless they actually own a production model. I've had one since day one and I have always gotten 10+ hours of battery life of moderate to heavy use, about 2 days on standby, no lag/stutters/performance issues, and great reliability.

As to your original question regarding EFB apps, there is nothing currently but there are rumors that Jeppesen is working on one (and I'd be surprised if Garmin wasn't as well). With Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 all devices will be able to run the same app as long as it's optimized for the correct screen size, which means a lot less work for developers for both initial development and post-launch features and bug-fixes (I am a full time web and app developer).

[moodychief]

I don't know what you are talking about since I fly early 60's technology. Can you fly those CPU things lean of peak to get more battery life and performance?

Sent from my iPad

[mulro767]

My airline recently announced it will be distributing a Windows 8 tablet to every pilot. There was a work group that tested several tablets including iPad and some software vendors. Being an iPad and ForeFlight customer I was initially upset with the decision. But after talking with several pilots in the work group, they said hands down it was a better product. Can't wait for my professional cockpit to catch up in technology with my leisure cockpit.

[Txbyker]

Thats good info.  Any idea what Windows 8 platform they may use and what flight software they may provide you?  I use my iPAD for much more than just Foreflight.  I create and file flight plans.  I use Flightaware to see what clearance I will be given over the internet at the aiport.  I use it at destination as a GPS in the rental car.  Book hotels, etc.  What would be really neat is the ability to use it as a flight bag, Powerpoint presenter, spreadsheet reader, calender, etc.  I still have to carry a notebook with me on business trips and watch the iPhone for text and email.  One device, please!

 

Russ