Mooney 252 vs Encore

[madeira]

Hello there,

 

I'm the owner of a mooney 252. As far as I understand the differences between the 252 and the encore are the engine, with 220 hp instead of 210, and the brakes which are more effective. We these changes the aircraft goes from 2900 lbs MTOW to 3130 lbs. There are no structural changes as far as I know. 

 

Thats a big difference for an aircraft with payload limitations. Could someone share with me the W&B envelope of the encore. I would like to know the CG limits of the aircraft with 2130 lbs MTOW.

 

Thanks a lot for your help.

 

Jose

 

 

[Steve Dawson]

Ask Parker. He had his 252 upgraded with the changes to make it a encore with the weight increase.

[jimosborn]

Here's a link to the TCDS.  Page 34 shows CG range for all M20K variants to be the same regardless to MGTOW.  Specific to your question though, at weights below 2,360 lbs CG range is 40.6 to 49.3  No mention of CG limits change after conversion, although that might be covered in the retrofit instructions noted below, but if so, strange to be omitted from the FAA certification document.    <shrug>

 

http://tinyurl.com/3jpegwk

 

NOTE 21: M20K S/N’s 25-1000 thru 25-1230 and 25-2000 thru 25-2012 may be retrofitted to TSIO-360-SB2 engine and
gross weight increase to 3130 Lbs. when complied with M20K Gross Weight Increase Retrofit Instructions.

 

Cheers

[jackn]

The conversion requires new counter weights on the elevators and rudder. Also, new MP & RPM guages. This would be a good time to install a JPI 930. Also, depending on your mission, extended tanks would be a useful addition given the updated GW.

[driller]

The conversion requires new counter weights on the elevators and rudder. Also, new MP & RPM guages. This would be a good time to install a JPI 930. Also, depending on your mission, extended tanks would be a useful addition given the updated GW.

 

X2.  Also, I was told that the gear is the beefier Bravo version starting with the 2013 serial number to go along with the useful load increase.  However, I have not been able to confirm this. 

[josedacostamadeira]

Hi,

 

Thanks a lot for your info.

jimosborn, I was looking at the document you sent me but the CG limits there are only for the 2900lbs M20K. The Mooney Encore isn't there when it cames to CG limits, only its weight.

I'm inclined to assume that the line from 40.6 inches/2350 lbs continues straight passing 43.5 inches / 2900 lbs until 3130 lbs. But that is a guess and I would like to know for sure, and that's why I would need to know the exact CG kimits.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

José

[Parker_Woodruff]

Jose,

 

There is no reason to fly the M20K (210hp) over the max weight.  That extra 10 horsepower comes in handy at weights over 2900 lb.  And honestly, 220 hp is what any 2900 lb Mooney really needs.

 

I had an M20J that could fly at 2900 lbs.  Sure, the climb rate was 500-700'/min on a hot day.  But it just takes one lapse in climb performance judgement to wish you didn't have that extra soul onboard.

 

Even though the airplane may not be out of CG limits for the higher weight in question, there is no substitute for having enough power.

[jimosborn]

Hi,

 

Thanks a lot for your info.

jimosborn, I was looking at the document you sent me but the CG limits there are only for the 2900lbs M20K. The Mooney Encore isn't there when it cames to CG limits, only its weight.

I'm inclined to assume that the line from 40.6 inches/2350 lbs continues straight passing 43.5 inches / 2900 lbs until 3130 lbs. But that is a guess and I would like to know for sure, and that's why I would need to know the exact CG kimits.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

José

 

Jose;  if I correctly understand your question, you are attempting to determine CG range for M20K at weights above 2900 lbs when MGTOW has been increased to 3130 lbs; is that correct?  If so, the short answer is +44.74 to +49.30. Dunno why it isn't addressed in the TCDS but the calculation is fairly straight forward.

 

AFT CG is fixed at 49.3 regardless of weight, so the problem is to determine FWD CG slope at weights above 2900 lbs.  In other words, how much further aft is the FWD CG limit at 3130 lbs, than it is at 2900 lbs?

 

First we need to determine the existing slope profile based on straight-line variation, per TCDS instruction; to wit: 

 

FWD CG Limit @  2900 lbs  =   +43.5 

FWD CG Limit @  2360 lbs  =   +40.6

Normal Slope          540 lbs        + 2.9 variation

 

Divide 2.9 by 540  =  .00537 per lb weight gain, multiply by 230 lb total wt. gain  =  +1.235 slope continuum to 3130 lbs, thus......

 

FWD CG Limit  @   2900 lbs  =   +43.500

Slope continuum to  3130 lbs  =   +  1.235

New FWD CG   @  3130 lbs  =    +44.735   =  MGTOW CG range  +44.74 to  +49.30.

 

Hope this answers your question, Jose.  Perhaps someone will create and post a graphic spreadsheet on this.

 

Cheers

[josedacostamadeira]

Thank you all for your support.

Parker, my idea is not to fly the M20K overweight, on the contrary. What I'm studying is the feasibility of the Encore conversion and whether this is worth the effort.

 

Jim, thanks for your calculations. Now I have what I need in order to make a decision on the Encore conversion.

 

Cheers

José

[turbineseaplane]

Is the Encore conversion something that can still be done?

If so, what's the ballpark cost on it?

That's all.

[rbridges]

Is the Encore conversion something that can still be done?

If so, what's the ballpark cost on it?

That's all.

 

I think Parker above just had the conversion done fairly recent.

[fantom]

Is the Encore conversion something that can still be done?

If so, what's the ballpark cost on it?

That's all.

 It isn't cheap, and it isn't easy. The inner gear doors might not even be available.

 

Your best bet is to speak to Don Maxwell in Lonview, TX. He converted Parker's 252. You can find most of the data doing an advanced search or two on this board.