Advice on this Airplane?

[Apollo]

So I'm looking at buying an airplane here in Texas. The price is around (30k-ish).

Can anybody give me an idea if this is a good airplane or not? obviously Im going to get a good pre-buy.

I'm worried about two things: The rust on the pitot tube, as well as the 'front strut replacement.'

Lots of pictures here:

http://imgur.com/a/jCBTm

1962 Mooney M20C S/N 2173

• Total Airframe Time: 3861 hours
  
• Engine is Lycoming O-360 A1D 180 HP (so not considered high performance)
  
• Engine Time since Major Overhaul: just over 800 hours
  
• Factory overhaul performed in 1992
  
• Current owner has owned the plane since 1989
  
• 2-Blade Hartzell Constant Speed Prop (requires 150 hour eddie current inspection per AD)
  
• Time since prop overhaul: 350 hours
  
• Annual Inspection due March 2013
  

Avionics

• 4-place intercom (PM 1000)
  
• King KMA 20 TSO/MB Audio Panel
  
• GPS/COM1 0 Garmin GNC 300XL (TSO for IFR)
  
• COM2 - ICOM A-200
  
• NAV2 - Narco AT 50
  
• Transponder - Narco AT 50
  
• ADF - King KR 86
  

Modifications

• Updated interment panel - LASAR T with post instrument lights
  
• 201 style windshield by LASAR
  
• O & N Aircraft Fuel Cell Bladders
  
• Folding rear seat by LASAR
  

Other

• Nose gear strut replaced March 2012
  
• New carpet July 2012
  

[Parker_Woodruff]

I'd just send it over to Don Maxwell Aviation in Longview (903-643-9902) and have him do your pre-purchase inspection. Pay for the inspection and have the seller agree pay for any squawks affecting the airworthiness of the aircraft. If the seller walks, then the inspection price is on him/her.

[Apollo]

Average inspection cost with Don?

[1964-M20E]

Just guessing but to open up a Mooney and inspect not fix anything and close it back up you are looking at 2 to 3 days max of shop labor and at $75/hr it should not be anymore than $1,800. It generally takes me about 4 hours to open up the plane for inspection and 4 more to close and that is removing all inspection covers, cowling and belly pans. Four hours of inspection the plane and 4 hours on the books should get you through an annual inspection and that would only be 16 hours of shop time. However, this is not fixing anything. While searching for my current plane one shop quoted me an outrageous price to do an annual inspection because they don’t do pre-buy inspections and I ended up passing on both. The good thing is if you get the plane then you have an annual inspection by “your shop” not the sellers. Oh and the shop you use generally should not be the same shop he uses unless you know the shop very very well.

Call them and ask. You also need to consider the logistics of the aiplane location and shop location.

[fantom]

Average inspection cost with Don?

Suggest you give Don a call.

[thinwing]

Well Parker...a prebuy may well reveal 30k of squawks...asking the owner to swallow that is a bit much...and holding the seller to the cost of prepurchase if no agreement is reached is unusual ..as I recall in most plane deals the buyer assumes the cost of the prebuy....than what exactly counts as an airworthyness issue is negotiated...in this 30k deal..we have cracked gear pucks...yeah they should be replaced but asking the owner to pickup the 2grand cost for all 3 gear legs combined with a 5k msc style inspection would have me thinking it is better and less hassle to donate the aircraft and take the tax benefit spreadout 4/5years if necessary.The thing is ..the buyer thinks he is buying a 30k plane...does he know he will be maintaining a 200k plane...my 2cents..kpc

[Hank]

The front strut replacement was probably due to either: 1) worn bushing, making for exciting landing rollouts [see Don Maxwell's site, "The 8-Second Ride"], or 2) towing damage by someone using a tractor or other large, heavy-duty aircraft pusher.

Get someone knowledgable and experienced to check it out [thoroughly!]. Pre-Purchase Inspection is usually paid by the buyer; airworthy squawks are usually paid by the seller, or the price reduced accordingly.

You'll like the windshield and the folding back seat--it's amazing what can fit with just one side folded down. In my plane, I run out of cubic feet well before I run out of useful load.

[BigTex]

Don did my pre-buy. He charges a flat rate of $950 (at least that what mine was). That $950 saved me almost $5K in air worthy squawks that the prior owner had to pick up as part of the sell. Money well spent.

[OR75]

Agree with Thinwing.

You are looking to buy a used 30k airplane, not a brand new 700k 4-seater or a 25MM Gulfstream.

I would recommend you find an owner / operator who has been actively involved in maintenance or a local A/P mechanic you trust and open all the panels you can open. Take a Philipps screwdriver, flashlight and a mirror.

On a side note:

All pitot get corrosion (this one has a more than average. A new one is about 1k

If you intent to keep this aircraft more than 5 years, you will likely need to ugrade the avionics to a WAAS GPS (5k - minimum compliance - to 15k depending on what you will want to install)

[Newmooneyguy]

I have flown the airplane and am acquianted with the owner. Very competent individual, and the airplane ran very nicely.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Well Parker...a prebuy may well reveal 30k of squawks...asking the owner to swallow that is a bit much...and holding the seller to the cost of prepurchase if no agreement is reached is unusual ..as I recall in most plane deals the buyer assumes the cost of the prebuy....than what exactly counts as an airworthyness issue is negotiated...in this 30k deal..we have cracked gear pucks...yeah they should be replaced but asking the owner to pickup the 2grand cost for all 3 gear legs combined with a 5k msc style inspection would have me thinking it is better and less hassle to donate the aircraft and take the tax benefit spreadout 4/5years if necessary.The thing is ..the buyer thinks he is buying a 30k plane...does he know he will be maintaining a 200k plane...my 2cents..kpc

The seller should have a pretty good idea of if the airplane is up to snuff. I've found some sellers are unwilling to submit their a/c to the A&P of my choice (whether it be G-Force, Don Maxwell, or Top Gun, or one of the few others). I generally run from those planes.

As a buyer, if a prebuy on a $30,000 aircraft showed $30,000 in squawks, I'd probably eat the prebuy cost and walk away. Something else to build into the purchase agreement.

[lamont337]

I had to replace my nose strut as well but don't let that scare you. When we went to do the bushing kit we found out that someone had already tried and f--'d it up. Cost a little over 1 amu but now there is no slop and stops for the steering were added. Money well spent and it should last a few decades.

[Freight Dog]

I second Don Maxwell... $950 fixed cost is what he charges for a prebuy, and yes, it's worth every penny. You can also turn it into an annual inspection for additional $900 assuming there are no airworthiness issues found. Ask the seller to cover the airworthiness items, you pay $900 more and you have a fresh annual done by the MSC with all issues addressed.

[M20F]

My prebuy was with Maxwell and it was done as an annual. I paid $1000 with the understanding all airworthy squawks were for the seller or the seller had the choice of giving me $1000 and backing out of the deal. This allowed me to get a very airworthy airplane with no hidden issues and a list of items which I knew would need to be addressed soon (rebuild fuel injection, mag overhaul, etc.). Thus far no major mechanical surprises and I have been able to easily budget and tackle the rebuilding of the accessories and other tweaks.

I would rather spend $40K and get an airplane that is solid then spend $30K and get an airplane that needs $20K worth of work that I wasn't aware of when I bought it because I went cheap on the pre-buy. This remains a buyers market and there are a lot of good deals out there.

[Parker_Woodruff]

This remains a buyers market and there are a lot of good deals out there.

This is true. It's also true that good airframes across all M20 variants move pretty quick.

[FloridaMan]

Always a good idea to ask the seller if he would be ok with Don doing a prepurchase inspection; even if you're bluffing, the seller may show his cards on that. From the interior photos, I would be suspicious that the plane may have sat for an extended period.

[Rated_E]

That plane looks Way better than my two Mooney projects, i can only wish for a sorry looking pitot tube. You can get a real good feeling ( or bad ) just by lifting up the rear seat, look at lower spar area as it goes into the tank area. Also look inside the bottom wing panel towards the rear spar for rear spar problems. That plane has clearly been taken care of and certainly worth a first look on your own.

[Wildhorsesracing]

Get a good Pre-BUY - I can't stress that enough! I used the local mechanic where the aircraft was located for a pre-buy, even flew there and helped with unscrewing the panels, etc. but he missed a few key items that could've been expensive major showstoppers.

That plane is definitely nicer than what I started with - I was lucky that my A&P (Lou Pugliese @ Flying Leaf Aviation - KHBI) let me help plus learn all about my airplane as he worked on it. It took up 6 months of space in his shop but I can officially say it has paid off handsomely and I am proud of the result. He was very thorough and patient with me as an A&P apprentice-in-training.

[Apollo]

Decided not to buy the airplane. Didn't even do a pre-buy on it. The price on the airplane is simply amazing and I hope somebody here buys it!

Decided to keep borrowing my friends mooney for gas and pay off my student loans first.

Still stings a little.

[KSMooniac]

Paying off debt is the more mature decision, especially if you already have access to a Mooney for the cost of gas! It is much less fun, however.

The only good news is that the current political and economic climate likely assure a continued decline of plane values, so in 6-12 months or longer you'll be able to buy much more Mooney for $30k.

[triple8s]

Where's the "strut" on my Mooney? Would it be the shock absorber thing that I have only seen on one very old Mooney?

[Marauder]

Where's the "strut" on my Mooney? Would it be the shock absorber thing that I have only seen on one very old Mooney?

The "strut" is the nose gear strut. It is the mechanism that holds the nose gear in place. Here is a picture of one. Note the dark spot on it, that is the damage.

[rbridges]

Decided not to buy the airplane. Didn't even do a pre-buy on it. The price on the airplane is simply amazing and I hope somebody here buys it!

Decided to keep borrowing my friends mooney for gas and pay off my student loans first.

Still stings a little.

smart decision.

[Marauder]

I would refer to the part in the picture as the nose gear truss. I'm not sure what a nose gear strut is on a Mooney either. As was referenced above by triple8s, vintage Mooneys came equipped with a hydraulic nose gear shimmy damper, but at some point they were abandoned by MAC as superfluous/ineffective/unnecessary, and most have since been removed.

Jim.

Good point Jim. I thought at first we are dealing with semantics but it may be the dampener that the question pertains to. You are correct it is a truss (something that is designed with triangular intersects) as opposed to a strut (something that is designed for longitudinal compression support). That said, I have heard it referred to, although incorrectly, as a strut. Even one of my APs referred to it that way. Coming from the northern part of the country and now living in the Mid-Atlantic area, I have gotten used to "soda" but I still drink "pop"

[scottfromiowa]

Decided not to buy the airplane. Didn't even do a pre-buy on it. The price on the airplane is simply amazing and I hope somebody here buys it!

Decided to keep borrowing my friends mooney for gas and pay off my student loans first.

Still stings a little.

YOU DEFINITELY MADE THE RIGHT DECISION...Enjoy almost painless Mooney fun.