Big layoffs reported at ForeFlight.

[Bolter]

3 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Not happy with this news.

Not happy with them not supporting my "old" iPad.

Not happy with GP being my option.

Guess I'm just going to keep using FF until it goes to crap.

There is still the Avis of EFB's...FlyQ from Seattle Avionics.  I have used this since the early days, and when testing against FF there are differences, but nothing that made me want to switch.  

[PeteMc]

6 hours ago, bonal said:

Certainly not a good thing and I wonder if has anything to do with the emails advising about the requirement for iOS 18….

Every so often FF posts about how you will not be able to update the FF software if you are using older iOS/iPadOS.  From what I know of Apple from back in the day, my guess is FF is not allowed to continue to offer updates of software that was designed for iOS/iPadOS that is no longer supported by Apple. So when Apple sunsets an OS, the App providers do to. 

(If any one releases software through Apple, maybe you can confirm if this is correct.) 

[Hank]

This makes my choice to stick with Avare look even better! And no, I haven't tried AvareX yet. That it runs on a $150 wifi-only budget Samsung tablet (which includes GPS chip) is even better.

I don't use it for my logbook, so I can't comment on how (or if) it works. But georeferenced approach plates and automatic switching to georeferenced airport diagram between landing and hitting the brakes, is so nice that it feels like cheating!

[Justin Schmidt]

If this surprises or worries any of you...wait till you find out what's been going on in the software industry for many years

[Jackk]

2 hours ago, Bolter said:

There is still the Avis of EFB's...FlyQ from Seattle Avionics.  I have used this since the early days, and when testing against FF there are differences, but nothing that made me want to switch.  

 Same flyQ who tried to royally screw over their lifetime membership customers?

[201Steve]

5 hours ago, MikeOH said:

 

Not happy with GP being my option.

Guess I'm just going to keep using FF until it goes to crap.

There are like 20 other options. 

[Bolter]

27 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 Same flyQ who tried to royally screw over their lifetime membership customers?

The same.  But they did admit they were wrong and fixed it.  That takes a negative and makes it a plus, overall.  

[Jackk]

22 minutes ago, Bolter said:

The same.  But they did admit they were wrong and fixed it.  That takes a negative and makes it a plus, overall.  

 It’s been a while, but as I recall after getting a ton of heat, including as OSK, they relented and made a never to be updated grandfathered version of the software for the lifetime members. 
 

 The life time members signed up to always have the current version, like, for life

 

 FF just laid of some staff and changed the discount for CFI from a NAFI membership to based on how many students you actually get to get FF.  Which if you are actually a active CFI is a better deal, where as the non active CFIs were just using NAFI for a discount which ended up being a free NAFI membership.

[Mark942]

Just read FF public response about the layoffs: Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah...Safety, reliability, and our customer commitments remain unchanged and remain our top priority.”

Yep, $ has nothing to do with it. We the customer (pilots who can actually DIE if information is wrong) are there top priority.

[Jackk]

10 hours ago, Mark942 said:

Just read FF public response about the layoffs: Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah...Safety, reliability, and our customer commitments remain unchanged and remain our top priority.”

Yep, $ has nothing to do with it. We the customer (pilots who can actually DIE if information is wrong) are there top priority.

 Are you suffering from hysteria? 

[SARNorm]

Just purchased a Sentry. Hope FF continues at least at its current level. 

[Scott Dennstaedt, PhD]

I worked for FF for 2.5 years, but I have using GP since 2017. Based on my sources, I think 40-50% is an overstatement. The affected employees are evidently receiving severance packages, benefits and transition resources. 

Edited January 16 by Scott Dennstaedt, PhD

[exM20K]

My subscription renewed yesterday, so i'm in for another year at least.

Maybe this is the minority/outlier position, but...

At this moment, I'm not overly concerned as a user from a functionality and stability perspective. This is obviously very bad news for the individuals terminated, and I'm glad the guy I recommended for an interview a couple years ago didn't accept the offer then.  I'm not concerned about the existing functionality because the product is fully developed, and the adding of *new* features often leads to bloat and diminished usability. Intuit's Quickbooks Online would be Exhibit 1 here.

It is possible, probably likely, that customer support will be degraded.  That is regrettable as I have gotten over-the-weekend responses from them in the past.

Pricing is locked in at least for this year, and the availability of a relatively easy competing and already cheaper alternative *may* keep a lid on price increases.  However if the AvBrief report is correct, this group bought FF/Jepp for $10 Billion. That is a big number to service - back-of-the-envelope 1% per month.  

So it's wait-and-see for me for now.

-dan

[PeteMc]

Now it looks like they are pulling the Trip Assistant too.  Not that it was the best tool ever... it was not and needed a lot of work.  But the concept was great had they just fixed it.

One of their "reasons" is for lack of use.  Duh!  It was only available to the Premium level subscription (and I'm assuming above), but since it didn't work all that well, it was not a go-to tool.  I do admit I would plug in Airports on my longer XC and my X-US flights to see what it showed me for fuel stops.  It was the only place in FF where you can look at a multi stop flight and play with the numbers for you Stop Time to "guesstimate" the total travel time.  Wish they had fixed/improved it and just offered it to everyone vs trashing it. 

[PeteMc]

52 minutes ago, Scott Dennstaedt, PhD said:

I think 40-50% is an overstatement.

Do you think the number if accurate if you look at *only* the software engineers (and related staff)?  That 40% tracks with what Amazon did at the end of the year as well as others. 

There's a big move for AI to do a lot of the coding and a much smaller staff to just monitor and and catch the things AI doesn't understand.  (Hopefully flying through mountains is not one of those things. )

 

Edited January 16 by PeteMc

[Scott Dennstaedt, PhD]

20 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

Do you think the number if accurate if you look at *only* the software engineers (and related staff)?  That 40% tracks with what Amazon did at the end of the year as well as others. 

Likely the biggest impact was their engineering team. 

[hammdo]

AI is the new wave, training the AI models/machine learning will make them very capable. Those using the AI engine (such as a 1st level support person) will use AI, They’ll not be very knowledgeable (as an example for FF case, offshore support will probably not be pilots or will have little aviation experience) but rely on AI. Having dealt with VCs, PEs and M&As, I see it all the time - AI will just accelerate things. 
 

This is not new as  any M&A requires removal of duplication, cut costs, raise prices, show profit quickly, sell off used up/unnecessay assets… been that way for decades.

-Don

[PeteMc]

2 hours ago, hammdo said:

They’ll not be very knowledgeable (as an example for FF case, offshore support will probably not be pilots or will have little aviation experience) but rely on AI.

I'd like to say that "I'm sure they will have a better AI model..."  but have you ever asked the basic Google or Bing AI an aviation question?  Pretty good at knowing a specific Reg and pulling that up.  But when you ask AI a question it has to think about, I'd say 90% of the answers were wrong.  Sometimes the answer would start off correct until you get to the end and the summary would be SO WRONG.

 

[hammdo]

Don’t disagree at all, my point is FF (and others) will probably use it with support folks who won't particularly know it’s wrong. The AI models need to be told it’s wrong, that usually takes the ‘experienced’ person to do that to train it.

I deal with support folks daily and I know they are giving me an ‘AI’ answer. When I get into technical details, they get lost quick, then I finally get the 2nd or 3rd level support, who can then help me. Those are the folks who usually have to train the AI model for the next time.

Over time it will get smarter, I just hope no-one is given bad info that causes ‘harm’.

-Don

 

 

[Jackk]

I’d wager AI will end up replacing the Indian tech replacements.

 

 Good at mindless simple pure logic tasks, but crumples when independent thought or big picture management is needed

[N201MKTurbo]

So, I’m a professional software developer. I should be writing software right now, but I’m goofing off with Mooneyspace. 

Visual Studio keeps trying to force more and more AI stuff down our throats. Most of it is just annoying. Every now and then it will give a code suggestion  that is like it read my mind. But about 80% of the time it is just gibberish. And it gets in the way of what I need to do. It isn’t really helping.

If I go to Google and search for a code example of some syntax or function I want to use, the AI will generate example code to illustrate what I was looking for. Except, it is garbage! It is  a hodgepodge of many posts on the subject. Usually a mashup of the Stack Overflow at the top of the search results.  It often has stuff in it that was deprecated years ago. I just think that AI isn’t ready for prime time yet. Any business executive who fires all their developers with the expectation that they are going to be replaced with AI has drank the Kool Aid.

Just my two cents. But then I’m old school, I’ve been writing software since before most of the current developers parents were born.

[Justin Schmidt]

12 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

So, I’m a professional software developer. I should be writing software right now, but I’m goofing off with Mooneyspace. 

Visual Studio keeps trying to force more and more AI stuff down our throats. Most of it is just annoying. Every now and then it will give a code suggestion  that is like it read my mind. But about 80% of the time it is just gibberish. And it gets in the way of what I need to do. It isn’t really helping.

If I go to Google and search for a code example of some syntax or function I want to use, the AI will generate example code to illustrate what I was looking for. Except, it is garbage! It is  a hodgepodge of many posts on the subject. Usually a mashup of the Stack Overflow at the top of the search results.  It often has stuff in it that was deprecated years ago. I just think that AI isn’t ready for prime time yet. Any business executive who fires all their developers with the expectation that they are going to be replaced with AI has drank the Kool Aid.

Just my two cents. But then I’m old school, I’ve been writing software since before most of the current developers parents were born.

Also, my thoughts.  My ceo is hellbent on ai, our bench projects now have to be ai. More effort is going into ai than procuring client projects. So much rot, stupidity,  and laziness in the industry now. Like rust a cult.

[PeteMc]

32 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

It is  a hodgepodge of many posts on the subject. Usually a mashup of the Stack Overflow at the top of the search results.

Exactly!! 

[Yetti]

y'all are really not keeping up with the world are y'all.    Yesterday I needed to download a bunch of JSON data into a spreadsheet.    GROK wrote me some python in 30 minutes and 2 revisions.   Worked great.  Every Company with coders can fire 2/3rds of them and just use AI and get everything done way faster.  Oh ya the last time I coded was in the Late 1900s.    And I don't even know how to write python code. 

[Justin Schmidt]

3 minutes ago, Yetti said:

y'all are really not keeping up with the world are y'all.    Yesterday I needed to download a bunch of JSON data into a spreadsheet.    GROK wrote me some python in 30 minutes and 2 revisions.   Worked great.  Every Company with coders can fire 2/3rds of them and just use AI and get everything done way faster.  Oh ya the last time I coded was in the Late 1900s.    And I don't even know how to write python code. 

That's about 5 min in c or c++ if i am not using a library. And no security or other issues.