Gear down or flaps down first (poll)

[201er]

Do you extend gear or flaps first for landing? Do you use any other slowdown devices like prop or spoilers and in what order?

[midlifeflyer]

Interesting question. I guess you can break it down between VFR and IFR, but in both cases, my answer is the same.

Gear down. Its not even close.  

Other devices: for me, use of speed brakes means one of two things. (1) A slam dunk/keep your speed up request from ATC or (2) I screwed up on my SOP incremental  power reductions.

[Hank]

I always put Takeoff Flaps down first, for stability in slow(er) flight. Dropping gear starts final descent, IFR or VFR. Any additional flaps are added as necessary. Full flap landings are rare, except for calm wind days.

Also, Vfe = 125 mph, and Vg = 120 mph, so no using gear as speed brakes.

[takair]

It likely depends on vintage too. My old E has a much higher gear speed than flap speed, so it is harder to get to flap speed without putting the gear down.

[DXB]

My only exception to gear down then flaps, which makes it very unlikely to forget the gear, is  FISK arrival into KOSH.  Half flaps with 2300/18" and gear up gives you a  stable 90kts in the C with a bit extra stall margin when putting along at slow speed. 

[jlunseth]

I put the gear down six miles from the airport like the big iron. For a couple of reasons. One, too much potential for distraction in the pattern, so I want the gear down before I get there. Two, I am usually descending from a high altitude at a high rate of speed and I need the gear to get to pattern speed. Have had our local tower chew on me a couple of times because I was not slow enough. They have lots of school planes in the pattern. Flaps can wait.

[midlifeflyer]

43 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

I put the gear down six miles from the airport like the big iron. For a couple of reasons.

Sounds like our philosophy is similar. I'm not playing big iron, but FR, I'm in the common gear down / go down group (which can be even further out).  VFR it's at the intersection of pattern altitude and 3 miles.  

[N201MKTurbo]

I have been putting the gear down when I turn downwind for forty years. I put the flaps down when I’m abeam the numbers.

A little more dangerous on a straight in, no defined points to do your stuff. You have to rely on the GUMPS or dare I say, a checklist.

[PT20J]

VFR, I put the gear down turning downwind and full flaps abeam the numbers.

IFR, I put TO flaps in one dot high on the GS/GP and set trim and power for 90 KIAS while level. Then, it’s gear down at GS/GP intercept which nicely begins a descent to 90 KIAS. I usually set full flaps after breaking out, unless I break out low with a lot of gusts or windshear and then I leave flaps set for TO and concentrate on flying the airplane.

 

 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have been putting the gear down when I turn downwind for forty years. I put the flaps down when I’m abeam the numbers.

A little more dangerous on a straight in, no defined points to do your stuff. You have to rely on the GUMPS or dare I say, a checklist.

We're exactly opposite! Takeoff Flaps no later than pattern entry, gear down abeam my intended landing spot.

[IvanP]

Gear down about 5 nm from airport, flaps abeam of numbers on downwind if doing standard pattern or about 2 miles final if on IFR approach. 

Speedbrakes as needed if steep descent is needed to get to patten/approach altitude. 

[MikeOH]

On my F Vfe is higher than Vle, so it's first notch of flaps, then gear, then full flaps on final.

[N201MKTurbo]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

We're exactly opposite! Takeoff Flaps no later than pattern entry, gear down abeam my intended landing spot.

As long as we don’t break anything, to each his own.

I do the gear first because it has a faster speed. The gear drag slows me to the flap speed. 
 

I figure the gear is for drag and the flaps are for slow.

[C.J.]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

As long as we don’t break anything, to each his own.

I do the gear first because it has a faster speed. The gear drag slows me to the flap speed. 

^^^^^ I agree ^^^^ but having said that, IIRC, my 1965 C is the only plane I've flown where Vlo/le was higher than Vfe.  

For everything I flew in my previous life, flaps to approach setting prior to gear extension was the procedure IMC or VMC.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, C.J. said:

^^^^^ I agree ^^^^ but having said that, IIRC, my 1965 C is the only plane I've flown where Vlo/le was higher than Vfe.  

For everything I flew in my previous life, flaps to approach setting prior to gear extension was the procedure IMC or VMC.

Agree completely. Most Cessna’s, especially the twins, the flaps are speed brakes. But we are talking about Mooneys. They are a little different.

[PT20J]

3 hours ago, C.J. said:

^^^^^ I agree ^^^^ but having said that, IIRC, my 1965 C is the only plane I've flown where Vlo/le was higher than Vfe.  

For everything I flew in my previous life, flaps to approach setting prior to gear extension was the procedure IMC or VMC.

I think it depends. I looked up some from my library of flight manuals:

Piper Arrow: V_lo/V_le 150 MPH, V_fe 125 MPH

V35B Bonanza: V_lo/V_le 154 KIAS, V_fe 123 KIAS

T-6G: V_lo/V_fe 150 MPH, V_fe 125 MPH

DC-3: V_lo/V_le 144 KIAS V_fe 97 KIAS

Edited 17 hours ago by PT20J
Corrected DC-3 V speeds KIAS not MPH

[Hank]

23 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I think it depends. I looked up some from my library of flight manuals:

Piper Arrow: V_lo/V_le 150 MPH, V_fe 125 MPH

V35B Bonanza: V_lo/V_le 154 KIAS, V_fe 123 KIAS

T-6G: V_lo/V_fe 150 MPH, V_fe 125 MPH

DC-3: V_lo/V_le 144 KIAS V_fe 97 KIAS

Mooney M20-C, electric:  Vlo = 124 mph, Vfe = 124 mph 

Sorry, but all airplanes just are not the same!

[McMooney]

always flaps, well unless i'm doing a no flaps landing 8)

flap ext speed is > gear speed

[C.J.]

3 hours ago, PT20J said:

I think it depends. I looked up some from my library of flight manuals:

Piper Arrow: V_lo/V_le 150 MPH, V_fe 125 MPH

V35B Bonanza: V_lo/V_le 154 KIAS, V_fe 123 KIAS

T-6G: V_lo/V_fe 150 MPH, V_fe 125 MPH

DC-3: V_lo/V_le 144 KIAS V_fe 97 KIAS

Well yes, it definitely depends. For the record I did state "IIRC" & "plane I've flown". The only retractable singles I've flown any meaningful time in were 1974 -'77 M20C's & my '65C. So far nobody has extended the invitation to fly their T-6G or any other warbirds, but I'd happily accept if offered  

Everything else I flew had 2 engines and approach flaps before gear extension was the way we operated regardless of which had the higher limitation speed.

I didn't keep their AFM/POH when I stopped flying them, so ... C310R, C402B, PA31-350, SA226-TC, F28 Mk 4000, B737-2/3/400, B757/767, MD-80, A319/20/21

I'm 100% single pilot now and gear down before flaps works well for me and for this plane, but that procedure might change if bought something different.  

[midlifeflyer]

22 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have been putting the gear down when I turn downwind for forty years. I put the flaps down when I’m abeam the numbers.

A little more dangerous on a straight in, no defined points to do your stuff. You have to rely on the GUMPS or dare I say, a checklist.

That is a reason I decided on a gear down SOP that was not dependent on being downwind or on any other specific leg of the pattern.  

Sometimes I wonder whether my choice was driven by moving to complex airplanes at a busy Delta where i probably did more straight in and base entries than downwind. 

PS. I use a checklist