Mooney Parts Rumor

[Justin Schmidt]

It really appears that mooney is transferring what they can to LASAR and shutting down.

Now could this be to shed to existing debt? Probably.  Could it be to shed China out that still owns 20%? Probably.  Could they then turn LASAR into Mooney? Possibly.  Frankly,  as long as someone finds an actual businessman that knows aviation business to take of "mooney " stuff.

But really mooney is no longer viable. 

[1980Mooney]

On 9/19/2025 at 3:37 PM, Justin Schmidt said:

It really appears that mooney is transferring what they can to LASAR and shutting down.

Now could this be to shed to existing debt? Probably.  Could it be to shed China out that still owns 20%? Probably.  Could they then turn LASAR into Mooney? Possibly.  Frankly,  as long as someone finds an actual businessman that knows aviation business to take of "mooney " stuff.

But really mooney is no longer viable. 

When you say "shedding debt", remember the buildings in Kerrville are leased from the City of Kerrville in a long-term lease.  A long-term lease is a liability similar to long term debt.  If LASAR picks up the long term lease from the City then that sheds some liability from Mooney.  If LASAR "sublets" it from Mooney - then Mooney is still liable but it helps Mooney cashflow.  However that is small in the scheme of things.  The Kerrville Airport Authority has not posted any of Minutes of the recent Board Meetings so it is not clear what is going on.

I don't see how this "sheds the 20%" still owned by the Meijing Group of China".  Meijing put a lot of money into Mooney.  I bet most was via debt to themselves and is still on the Mooney Corp books making Meijing, Mooney Corp's biggest Creditor. 

• It is exactly what the VanGrunsven family did with Vans Aircraft. VanGrunsven was selling the stock of Vans Aircraft Company to the employees, but the VanGrunsven family loaned money to Vans Aircraft Company as debt to provide the financing and working capital for it to function.  Vans became insolvent and filed bankruptcy.  In bankruptcy the stockholders (equity) usually get wiped out as the debtholders seek to get enough value to cover what is owed to them (either from liquidation (auction) of assets or if there is not enough liquidation value, by taking ownership of the company in order to get paid back over time).  At the time of bankruptcy, VanGrunsven was a minority shareholder (like Meijing at Mooney), but in bankruptcy VanGrunsven wound up owning 100% of Vans. - just like a rubber band the VanGrunsven family snapped the ownership back and the employee shareholders got hosed.
• I am willing to bet that if Mooney files bankruptcy, the Meijing will wind up with 100% ownership again....

[Pinecone]

On 9/17/2025 at 10:28 AM, Paul Thomas said:

You'd have to invest in engineering to do that, and that's doesn't appear to be happening. Does Mooney still fabricates assemblies where it would make sense to have pre-punched holes? I wonder if a change to pre-punched would require paperwork as a change to the manufacturing process.

Not sure you would need to do any paperwork as to how you locate where the drill/punch the holes.

 

[1980Mooney]

On 9/19/2025 at 11:26 AM, kortopates said:

Actually they do pre-punch parts. Maintenance wouldn’t be possible on some things without doing so such as for example the seat rails are pre-punched. You could never drill out all the holes under the floor panel, as it is you can’t get a bucking bar on some of the rivets.
 

You are correct that many high tolerance structural parts and most brackets are predrilled. But I don't think skins are predrilled.

Here is a NOS Mooney factory wing skin for sale.  Mooney RH Wing Skin P/N 220000-194 NOS (1022-669) – Safe Skies Aviation, LLC

 

 

[Mark89114]

23 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

When you say "shedding debt", remember the buildings in Kerrville are leased from the City of Kerrville in a long-term lease.  A long-term lease is a liability similar to long term debt.  If LASAR picks up the long term lease from the City then that sheds some liability from Mooney.  If LASAR "sublets" it from Mooney - then Mooney is still liable but it helps Mooney cashflow.  However that is small in the scheme of things.  The Kerrville Airport Authority has not posted any of Minutes of the recent Board Meetings so it is not clear what is going on.

I don't see how this "sheds the 20%" still owned by the Meijing Group of China".  Meijing put a lot of money into Mooney.  I bet most was via debt to themselves and is still on the Mooney Corp books making Meijing, Mooney Corp's biggest Creditor. 

• It is exactly what the VanGrunsven family did with Vans Aircraft. VanGrunsven was selling the stock of Vans Aircraft Company to the employees, but the VanGrunsven family loaned money to Vans Aircraft Company as debt to provide the financing and working capital for it to function.  Vans became insolvent and filed bankruptcy.  In bankruptcy the stockholders (equity) usually get wiped out as the debtholders seek to get enough value to cover what is owed to them (either from liquidation (auction) of assets or if there is not enough liquidation value, by taking ownership of the company in order to get paid back over time).  At the time of bankruptcy, VanGrunsven was a minority shareholder (like Meijing at Mooney), but in bankruptcy VanGrunsven wound up owning 100% of Vans. - just like a rubber band the VanGrunsven family snapped the ownership back and the employee shareholders got hosed.
• I am willing to bet that if Mooney files bankruptcy, the Meijing will wind up with 100% ownership again....

Owning 100% of what is the question?

Let's face it the production line won't be reopened.

As previously mentioned part sales are $6 million, not a lot there at the end of the day.

My guess is that Meiijing has already written off their investment.  They wouldn't want it back.  They wouldn't want to open their checkbooks to continue to finance operations.  

I am not sure who LASAR is in terms of finance and deep pockets, my guess is they thought this was an opportunity to add marginal revenue without a lot of work, I suspect they are wrong as somebody who has bought a company that needs work.  Never again.  Probably the reason Don Maxwell passed, that would have made more sense.  

Just internet speculating.

 

[1980Mooney]

31 minutes ago, Mark89114 said:

Owning 100% of what is the question?

Let's face it the production line won't be reopened.

As previously mentioned part sales are $6 million, not a lot there at the end of the day.

My guess is that Meiijing has already written off their investment.  They wouldn't want it back.  They wouldn't want to open their checkbooks to continue to finance operations.  

I am not sure who LASAR is in terms of finance and deep pockets, my guess is they thought this was an opportunity to add marginal revenue without a lot of work, I suspect they are wrong as somebody who has bought a company that needs work.  Never again.  Probably the reason Don Maxwell passed, that would have made more sense.  

Just internet speculating.

They could own 100% of a Corporate shell of Mooney consisting of 100% of the intellectual property, the drawings, technical files, the type certificate, the machine tools and presses which can be sold. etc. if they could settle the Vendor/Supplier liabilities.  These are all things that can be sold.  Don't mean to imply that they want it back as a going concern.

I was pointing out that it is actually a way for Meijing to "shed the 80%" owners who brought nothing to the table.  I always suspected that this shadowy "US Financial LLC Wyoming" owners group were just looking to flip the company for a quick buck.  They never brought anything, never invested anything, to Mooney.

Just pointing out in Bankruptcy, that is a process to orderly dispose of both assets and liabilities.  If Meijing holds debt in Mooney (i.e. they loaned money to Mooney at any point), then Meijing stands at the head of the line after Suppliers in their claims. As both a shareholder and holder of senior debt then they stand at the head of the line for reorganization of the equity/stock.. They can either take control in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy reorg or get paid out of asset sales after Vendors/Suppliers in a Chapter 11 bankruptcy liquidation.  80% owner US Financial LLC gets squat.  This is exactly what VanGrunsven did at Vans.  Rather than liquidate, the VanGrunsven family took 100% control rather than liquidate.  The employee ESOP which owned the majority of the Vans stock got squat.

I agree with your comment about LASAR.

Edited September 22 by 1980Mooney

[Schllc]

On 9/22/2025 at 4:04 PM, 1980Mooney said:

Just pointing out in Bankruptcy, that is a process to orderly dispose of both assets and liabilities.  If Meijing holds debt in Mooney (i.e. they loaned money to Mooney at any point), then Meijing stands at the head of the line after Suppliers in their claims.

This is not necessarily true. I seem to remember a five year period after the sale from the Chinese. it had something to do with the Chinese ownership precluding any defense work, which I think a lot of aviation companies clamor for to make up shortfalls.
Even if this isn’t the case, there are several ways that debt could be discharged. 
I do agree the Chinese have long since written this off. 

[MB65E]

I bet you could buy Mooney for a couple hundred thousand. But then assume a $15m loss from sloppy accounting from over the years, and a bad lease agreement with the city. 
The only thing of value is the type certificate which should be protected by an owner interest group like many others. 
Swift is an example. 
-Matt

[LANCECASPER]

This just showed up today:

 

What’s going on with Mooney & LASAR — the straight story

Hi Mooney family,

We’ve heard the big question loud and clear: what the heck is going on with Mooney and LASAR?

Here’s the answer.

Over the past months, we've kept our heads down fixing the foundation—late nights in the hangar, sorting drawings, validating specs, rebuilding tooling, and re-engaging vendors. We didn’t go quiet because we didn’t care; we went quiet to get real work done. Now it’s time to talk about what’s changing—and why.

LASAR didn’t set out to be a hero. We’re engineers, mechanics, and parts people—builders. When Mooney called, we answered.  When the Mooney torch needed picking up, the hands ready to grab it were ours and those of the Kerrville team who’ve loved and built these airplanes for decades. Our vision is simple and stubborn: Mooney, by the people and for the people. We’re committing every dollar we can to one job: keep ’em flying—not someday, now.

How we’re organized (clear lanes, one mission):

·       Mooney builds certified parts and stewards the Type Certificate.
·       LASAR distributes, supports customers, and supplements availability with additional and PMA parts where appropriate.
·       LASAR Aviation doesn’t manufacture parts; it’s the coordination and funding layer—the “plumbing” (finance, purchasing cadence, vendor onboarding, QA docs, IT, scheduling) that keeps the whole system moving.
Plain truth: LASAR Aviation is the entity keeping Mooney funded, operational, and in the fight. One team, one mission: keep ’em flying.

What we’ve been doing:

·       Working to stabilize the ship: AOG triage, quick wins out the door, weekly Kerrville+LASAR stand-ups.
·       Prioritizing the “grounders”: Identified the SKUs that park airplanes when they’re out of stock and locked specs, dates, and minimums.
·       Building the plan: Sequenced a Year-1 ~$3M parts build by safety-of-flight impact and lead times.
·       Tapping Kerrville know-how: Capturing invaluable knowledge and leveraging the know-how of a deeply dedicated team.
·       Tightening the plumbing: Clear change control, traceable paperwork, and purchasing tied to real shop schedules.

What’s happening right now:

·       Long-lead materials & vendor deposits are being staged in the right order.
·       Portal V1 (inventory, ordering, certs) is coming online for MSCs with real-time visibility across Mooney and LASAR warehouses, predictable discounts, and AOG priority.
·       We’re modernizing the online experience for owners and shops so parts buying belongs in 2025, not 2005.

The hard truth (and the necessary change):

In today's dollars, too many parts leave Mooney below true cost. Every box like that drains our ability to keep lights on, retain talent, and buy material. That math doesn’t work for a week—let alone a decade.

Effective immediately, Mooney-built parts will reflect a uniform 30% price increase.

This isn’t margin fluff. It funds the basics that keep your aircraft supportable:
·       Materials that show up on time
·       Certified labor that stays
·       Quality systems that catch issues before they hit your airplane
·       Equipment upkeep so we’re not nursing machines past tolerance
Pricing on supplemental/PMA items distributed by LASAR may vary by product; updated numbers will be clearly posted in the Portal and online catalog. If a price moves, we’ll explain why—in plain English.

What comes next:

·       Expand the catalog (high-impact SKUs first) and publish target restock dates
·       Bring more machining/finishing in-house to reduce cost and time
·       Maintain a fair, transparent pricing model tied to real inputs and quality
·       Publish quarterly progress reports: what shipped, what’s in production, what’s next

Your role in the story:

Time and money aren’t on our side, so we’re funneling all profits back into inventory, people, and machines to keep Mooney afloat and moving forward. This community has always been Mooney’s edge. In the days ahead, we’ll share a simple, fair way for owners and partners to lean in and directly accelerate the ramp.

Thank you for sticking with us—and for holding us to a high bar. This isn’t glossy marketing; it’s a promise: every dollar to the mission; every part to the fleet. Together with the Kerrville crew—and with you—we’ll secure the next 50 years of Mooney… one part, one airplane, one day’s work at a time.

Blue skies,
Brett Stokes and John Smoker
CEO, COO, LASAR Inc.

Mooney@LASAR.com
1.541.MyLASAR (541.695.2727) 

 

 

 

4439 SW Airport Rd. 
Prineville, OR 97754

 

 

https://mailchi.mp/39736a6a6d1d/weve-got-new-phone-lines-heres-how-to-reach-us-14769375?e=5483553f5d

[hammdo]

Yep, saw that today too…

-Don