Skew-t log p diagrams missing

[laytonl]

I was looking for a skew t diagram for a flight yesterday and couldn’t reach http://rucsoundings.noaa.gov/.

Is NOAA no longer publishing these charts?

 

lee

[MikeOH]

Yeah, a quick Google shows it was shut down for non-compliance with some Disability Act Section 508 (allegedly, not accessible for BLIND people!!!)

Anyway, this site is a possible alternative:

http://www.twisterdata.com/index.php?sounding.lat=42.3049&sounding.lon=-71.7406&sndclick=y&prog=forecast&model=NAM&grid=221&model_yyyy=&model_mm=&model_init_hh=&fhour=00&parameter=TMPF&level=2&unit=M_ABOVE_GROUND&maximize=n&mode=singlemap&sounding=y&output=image&view=large&archive=false

[bigmo]

This might be an assumption on my part, but I’m guessing you’re looking for temp and dew point data? I’m a daily user of Windy. The app is fabulous and easy to use. Set the crosshairs on your interest location, adjust the time slider at the bottom, then press ‘sounding’. You can zoom in the chart based upon your altitude interest. I use this app to find altitudes I can reasonably predict I won’t be stuck in a layer my entire flight. I’ve found their data and models to be spot on. 

[midlifeflyer]

As mentioned, the site was taken down. There are several alternatives. The one I’ve been using is FlyTheWeather. I used it on a trip from NC to NJ a few weeks ago and it’s forecast was solid.

[laytonl]

Yeah, I found flytheweather.com and is okay.  Not as easy to use as noaa though.

shutting down a valuable service so as to not offend anyone is stupid.

 

lee

[Rick Junkin]

I think the "not accessible for blind people" ADA explanation is a bogus misdirect. Here's what I just got from the NOAA site, including recommended alternate sources of the data.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Rick Junkin said:

I think the "not accessible for blind people" ADA explanation is a bogus misdirect. Here's what I just got from the NOAA site, including recommended alternate sources of the data.

An attack on rules about accessibility for people with limitations a “bogus attack”? Say it ain’t so!

[Rick Junkin]

7 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

An attack on rules about accessibility for people with limitations a “bogus attack”? Say it ain’t so!

What I meant was I think the claim that the site was pulled because blind people can't use it is a bogus claim. 

[midlifeflyer]

1 minute ago, Rick Junkin said:

What I meant was I think the claim that the sight was pulled because blind people can't use it is a bogus claim. 

I know what you meant and agree with you, although compliance with those types of rules may be part of the design requirements. It’s just more fun to think in terms like…

[MikeOH]

6 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

What I meant was I think the claim that the site was pulled because blind people can't use it is a bogus claim. 

Maybe, but quickly dismissing the possibility is a rush to judgement as well.  Section 508 does cover requirements to provide alternatives to "images, videos, non-text content". The graphical nature of the Skew-T/log p site looks applicable to having that requirement imposed.

Also, your link is a little too good to be true: "They were intended for research purposes and not designed for operational uses" Oh, REALLY?? That site has been around for YEARS, available to the public, and most certainly has been used for 'operational purposes'!  Now, you are ready to accept THAT statement as a valid justification for suddenly pulling the site but not an ADA violation?

"Not meeting design requirements" would appear to be consistent with not meeting some ADA/section 508 requirements. Not having the budget to figure out how to make the Skew-T/log p diagrams accessible seems a pretty reasonable explanation.  There are lawyers that specialize in 'shaking down' small businesses for failure to cross all the 'i's and dot all the 't's of ADA requirements.  So, shutting down this site to avoid such a possibility is logical.

[MikeOH]

6 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

I know what you meant and agree with you, although compliance with those types of rules may be part of the design requirements. It’s just more fun to think in terms like…

Zero/zero approaches don't scare that guy!

[Rick Junkin]

23 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Also, your link is a little too good to be true

Here's the link for the full context of what I cut and pasted. Judge for yourself. Try to avoid the jump to the ridiculous this time.

https://gsl.noaa.gov/tmp/302-redirect

[MikeOH]

1 minute ago, Rick Junkin said:

Here's the link for the full context of what I cut and pasted. Judge for yourself. Try to avoid the jump to the ridiculous this time.

https://gsl.noaa.gov/tmp/302-redirect

That's exactly what I quoted from. Taken down because they were 'not being maintained' and didn't meet some unspecified requirements.  Pretty vague explanation.

That was a pretty damn useful site, begs the question, 'why wasn't it being maintained?'  And, what actual requirements were not being met.  The 'full context' doesn't answer either of those.

Being open minded to other possibilities is not ridiculous.  Neither is shutting it down it down for failure to meet ADA requirements ridiculous; it would be an ACTUAL reason.

[0TreeLemur]

I use windy.com.   If you right click on a point, you get a little pop-up menu that lets you select a sounding tephigram (deviation of temp. and dew point. vs height from dry adiabatic ).  After the sounding appears, you can select skew-T optional toggle.

 

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

I use windy.com.   If you right click on a point, you get a little pop-up menu that lets you select a sounding tephigram (deviation of temp. and dew point. vs height from dry adiabatic ).  After the sounding appears, you can select skew-T optional toggle.

 

Doesn't seem to work for me.  I go to windy.com (with Chrome).  It opens a map more or less centered on my location--I assume it's using my IP address to do this.  The mouse icon is a "hand" that I can use to move the map, but nothing happens when I right click.  Do I have to buy a "premium" subscription?

[0TreeLemur]

4 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Doesn't seem to work for me.  I go to windy.com (with Chrome).  It opens a map more or less centered on my location--I assume it's using my IP address to do this.  The mouse icon is a "hand" that I can use to move the map, but nothing happens when I right click.  Do I have to buy a "premium" subscription?

Weird.  Chrome is where my premium subscription is set up.  When I open windy.com in firefox, which is not premium, and right-click, I get a little menu that looks like this:

[0TreeLemur]

After I click on "Sounding" up pops this:

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Weird.  Chrome is where my premium subscription is set up.  When I open windy.com in firefox, which is not premium, and right-click, I get a little menu that looks like this:

Thanks.  I'll try a different browser.  Or maybe try unblocking pop-ups.

[MikeOH]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Doesn't seem to work for me.  I go to windy.com (with Chrome).  It opens a map more or less centered on my location--I assume it's using my IP address to do this.  The mouse icon is a "hand" that I can use to move the map, but nothing happens when I right click.  Do I have to buy a "premium" subscription?

It's not clear to me if you are FIRST left-clicking on a desired location BEFORE right-clicking.  I have the non-premium (free) version and it works fine for me (iPad with Safari, however).

[0TreeLemur]

15 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

It's not clear to me if you are FIRST left-clicking on a desired location BEFORE right-clicking.  I have the non-premium (free) version and it works fine for me (iPad with Safari, however).

I right click first.  That simultaneously puts a white circle on the map at that point and opens that menu.

[MikeOH]

1 minute ago, 0TreeLemur said:

I right click first.  That simultaneously puts a white circle on the map at that point and opens that menu.

Interesting.  Probably because I'm using an iPad...I really don't left or right click, per se; I tap the location and then hold the touch for about 1 second until the menu pops up.

[0TreeLemur]

2 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Interesting.  Probably because I'm using an iPad...I really don't left or right click, per se; I tap the location and then hold the touch for about 1 second until the menu pops up.

Good to know.  I've never tried that on the iPad.

[jlunseth]

Well, this may have a broader effect than just the noaa site. I have used an app for years called Skew T Log Pro. You could pick an airport and get a skew t diagram, or pick a course beginning and ending and get charts over that course. It is down. It got its data from the noaa site. I have not check the foreflight graphics yet, wonder if they have been affected. I checked some of the sites in the noaa notice that was posted, could not find a skew t log p source. Maybe its there, but the sites were very complicated and I did not see the skew p data anywhere.

[MikeOH]

4 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

Well, this may have a broader effect than just the noaa site. I have used an app for years called Skew T Log Pro. You could pick an airport and get a skew t diagram, or pick a course beginning and ending and get charts over that course. It is down. It got its data from the noaa site. I have not check the foreflight graphics yet, wonder if they have been affected. I checked some of the sites in the noaa notice that was posted, could not find a skew t log p source. Maybe its there, but the sites were very complicated and I did not see the skew p data anywhere.

Yes, I lost the use of Skew-T Log Pro, as well.  Probably why I'm so upset about this.  The interface on that product was great.  And, I have not had any luck finding sources, either.

The Windy app is going to have to suffice but seems to lack the easy forecasting that the Skew-T Log Pro app provided.

[jlunseth]

Foreflight has - or at least had - a graphic where you could input your route of flight and altitude, and it would give you a display of cloud cover and icing potential you would encounter along the route. Not the same as skew t but provides the basic function of telling you when and where you might run into these. Haven’t checked yet to see if it is still working. Mystifies me why NOAA would remove such an excellent tool.