Ignition Switch Question

[201Steve]

On 11/27/2024 at 2:50 PM, EricJ said:

So, yeah.  I just take the position that if I'm comfortable standing in front of a judge explaining why I did something, that that's about as good as I can do.

Exactly. The regs, the case law, precedent are nothing but a giant contradiction that you can weave an explanation out of 6 ways from Sunday just like what’s going on here. 
 

Rosen sun visors. Hahahaha. Exactly. 
 

The regs give us enough leeway to keep our airplanes flying. It’s the arm chair pontificators that keep them grounded. If a sound argument can be made, we should normalize that flexibility instead of self imposing it to be taboo. Still waiting on someone to show me a single example of someone being enforced upon that made sound judgement with fair regulatory citation.
 

Even the idiot David Jewell who pencil whips engine overhauls isn’t being enforced upon and he’s an EGREGIOUS example of taking the loosest possible interpretation of the regs. He built me a motor, handed it back to me with a log entry that said OVERHAULED. no tags, no part list, no inspection reports, no receipts, no 8130s, no nothing whatsoever. “Over-fn-hauled. Sincerely, David Jewell”. 
 

So, there are professionals doing extremely idiotic things on a regular basis, you couldn’t beg the FAA to do anything about, and here we are wondering if it’ll be OK to use a new switch or should we use a piece of junk switch out of a wrecked airplane not knowing if it’s ok or not. It’s crazy. 

[Pinecone]

On 11/27/2024 at 3:40 PM, PT20J said:

The Decathlon I used to fly just had toggles and they weren’t even locking.

Yeah, but they are really not handy to hit them by accident.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

Yeah, but they are really not handy to hit them by accident.

Well, they were located at the left wing root, so pretty hard to bump into 

[Scooter]

I thought that somebody had posted with pics the military style “pull to move” toggle switches? It was a replacement for the ignition switch. Does anybody have that?

[47U]

2 minutes ago, Scooter said:

I thought that somebody had posted with pics the military style “pull to move” toggle switches? It was a replacement for the ignition switch. Does anybody have that?

@Pinecone

[Scooter]

Yeah I was looking for part number and serial number. Thanks

[Pinecone]

10 hours ago, Scooter said:

I thought that somebody had posted with pics the military style “pull to move” toggle switches? It was a replacement for the ignition switch. Does anybody have that?

 

Me.  I was going to go with a push button for start, but my avionics shop has had bad luck with them and recommended the spring loaded start switch.

I will check with my avionics shop for part number and source.

 

[KLRDMD]

Last summer I had the Electroair push button installed in my Cirrus. It is great!

http://www.electroair.net/switchPanel.html

[Pinecone]

6 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

Last summer I had the Electroair push button installed in my Cirrus. It is great!

http://www.electroair.net/switchPanel.html

As stated before, the ElectroAir switches feel flimsy.  And they do not have positive detents.

We got one for my plane, but there wasn't room.  So my avionics guy figured he would install it in his plane.  After looking it over, he decided not too do so.  After he showed it to me, I agreed that I would not have wanted it in my plane.

[MikeOH]

Interesting...one guy bought it, installed it, used it, loves it.

Another guy, didn't buy it, didn't install it, never used it, and hates it.

Love me those 'objective' reviews

[KLRDMD]

3 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Interesting...one guy bought it, installed it, used it, loves it.

Another guy, didn't buy it, didn't install it, never used it, and hates it.

Love me those 'objective' reviews

Come out to Tucson/Las Vegas and try it for yourself in my airplane 

[Pinecone]

17 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Interesting...one guy bought it, installed it, used it, loves it.

Another guy, didn't buy it, didn't install it, never used it, and hates it.

Love me those 'objective' reviews

My shop bought it, I saw and handled it and decided to not install it.  The shop owner considered installing it in his airplane, but also decided not to do so.

It looks nice.   But it is pretty large and Mooney panels are not.

[KSMooniac]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

My shop bought it, I saw and handled it and decided to not install it.  The shop owner considered installing it in his airplane, but also decided not to do so.

It looks nice.   But it is pretty large and Mooney panels are not.

I installed it as part of my EA dual ignition upgrade.  I had to sacrifice one of the 2 1/4" instruments on my left sub-panel to make it fit.  It does look nice and certainly does the job, but I agree that it feels flimsy, and I wish there were a cage around the starter button, as well as more resistance or positive detents for the ignition switches.  I also wish the sides of the rockers were colored for better visibility so you can verify with a glance through the windows that the switches are OFF.  

If I ever get around to doing a custom panel, I may move away from it towards separate toggle switches and a different start button.  But for now, it will work.

[Pinecone]

OK, I talked to my avionics shop.  The locking toggle switches are a Honeywell MILSPEC part.  Part of the TL series.

He says he gets them from Newark Electonics, but DigiKey and some others carry them.

[Scooter]

Thanks Pinecone. Appreciated 

[Pinecone]

One issue mentioned is you can no longer rely on the keys on the dash for the mags being off.

I was discussing this with my avionics shop and we came up with a Mags Off placard, that would be placed on the dash.  And part of putting it on the dash, would be to check the switches before you grab it.  And check them again once you place the placard.

[jetdriven]

That’s a lot of extra steps to have the convenience of having 3 switches vs a key 

[PT20J]

If you use toggle switches, you could tie a string to them with the other end tied to the placard so that in order to reach the glare shield you have to pull the string tight enough to flip the switches off.

[jetdriven]

But you pull  the switches up to put the  placard on the dash then that turns the switches on. And actually, they should be locking bat toggle switches.  The idea they put some cheap plastic switches on such an important piece of hardware, don’t think it’s all that great of an idea. And then they put the starter button with no shroud or guard on it and it actually sticks out beyond the flat surface of the switch. Again, it’s very easy to touch this panel and either hit the starter or turn off one or both magneto’s while you’re flying. Eventually, it’s going to happen, someone’s going to be flying at night and do one of those two things.  We have two clients with these switch panels and although they look cool, they’re not as good. 

[PT20J]

You could always go vintage

[Fly Boomer]

36 minutes ago, PT20J said:

You could always go vintage

 

That would be fun.  Great pic!

[Pinecone]

15 hours ago, jetdriven said:

That’s a lot of extra steps to have the convenience of having 3 switches vs a key 

Not really.  Check Mag switches, take 2 seconds.  Grab placard, place on dash, 5 seconds.  Check switches again, 2 seconds.  

Also, with toggle switches, easier to see if you left a mag Off after start or mag check.

 

[jetdriven]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Not really.  Check Mag switches, take 2 seconds.  Grab placard, place on dash, 5 seconds.  Check switches again, 2 seconds.  

Also, with toggle switches, easier to see if you left a mag Off after start or mag check.

 

But you also introduce 3  different failure points in the 3-step process.  If you pull the key out you do Al that with one step 

[EricJ]

I do like the idea of having something to put on the glareshield that is a positive indicator that the mags are off, but so many airplanes just have switches that now I'm thinking it's not any different than any other airplane with non-keyed ignition, so that's probably not that big of a hurdle.   I think two locking toggles for the mags and a sprung toggle for the starter are in the future for my airplane at some point.   Putting the switches within reach of the storm window will make it easy to double check them on the ground from outside.

 

[AJ88V]

Hard to believe this thread is still going.

There are several Bendix switches, PN 10-357210-1 on Ebay for less than $150 shipped with keys.  Looks like it was used in a bunch of planes, including Piper Arrow.

Love the Bendix Scintilla switch @PT20J.  Found a NOS keyed version of that switch on Ebay, but doesn't include the keys from what I can see.