Thinking of selling N79338

[Conrad]

I have neither the time nor the money to take care of 79338 at the moment. I will make a proper classified here with all the info as soon as my supporter status goes through!

Edited September 12 by Conrad

[Conrad]

Informal and entirely-too-honest listing of features:
- IFD440 with GTX345 for ADS-B out on 1090 with ADS-B in both on 1090 and 978
- Sealed tanks, never known to leak aside from when the quickdrain needed replacing
- Birds living in the tailcone
- Rear stub spar doubler kit installed
- Comes with RHS aluminum panel blank (no holes cut), some spare tractor headlights, and an old dead KX155 for parts.
- CGR30P with fuel flow. Custom mounting solution implemented for the processing unit to keep it out of the passenger's legroom
- Who the hell glued carpet to all the plastic interior panels, really
- Step retracts for maximum step envy in those around you. Please no buyers who want to replace the 6-pack with Aspen hardware and take out the vacuum pump
- "Positive Control" wing leveler was working last I knew, and has been maintained well beyond the end of its service life by kindly retired Brittain technicians
- Actually all the carpet needs to go, especially the stuff that used to be attached to the floor. If you could ever imagine getting to the material attached to the inside of the firewall, you would clearly wish to replace it
- Has way too much amp load if you need pitot heat in addition to everything else. LED lights would help greatly.
- The tires have kevlar in them or something
- How many type certificates do you know that list 0 unusable fuel?
- Full guppy mode no speed mods. You'd really want a new windshield at some point in the nearish future I think
- Powerflow exhaust and 3 blade Hartzell Top Prop
- Flush-mounted rivets on the wing tops for an extra .25 mph and a serious bump in sex appeal
- Engine preheater
- A strange gremlin causes alarming momentary spikes in the amperage readings when the transponder goes from being in a radar shadow to issuing its first transponse. Looks wild on the recorded data logs, but doesn't appear to harm anything. This issue has persisted through multiple transponders and alternators.
- The magnetic compass is calibrated both correctly and legally and proper calibration card is present
- Logs since the first test flight at the end of 1964

Price undecided. Out of annual. The plane is at KSEG currently which is not where I am.

Edited September 12 by Conrad

[AndreiC]

It would be very helpful to know

-- hours SMOH

-- when was the last annual?

-- a ballpark price

-- and to have some interior photos.

Thanks!

[MikeOH]

And, when it last flew.

[Jim Peace]

10 hours ago, MikeOH said:

And, when it last flew.

looks like May of 2022

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/N79338

[Paul Thomas]

You have a nice airplane. I understand that money is an issue, but you really should get an annual done and fly it. It will be well worth the investment and broaden your buyer pool. If not, expect sharks to come and low offers.

[Conrad]

I've put up a classified now. I'm still digging up more and more accurate info from the logs. I certainly think that it is a nice airplane; it deserves to be flying! Not only do I not have the money to spend but I need the money I have invested in it, making me a motivated seller. I got a great price on this plane -- I bought it with a nearly brand new engine overhaul the sticker price of which was probably nearly 2/3 of what I payed for the plane. Whoever gets it next needs to be ready for the cost of an overhaul, but I hope they also feel like the price I'm offering is a good deal that can be the start of a great relationship for someone who wants to spend their time and money taking care of this amazing old plane.

 

[Conrad]

Does the price seem reasonable? I don't really plan to get sharked -- I know this plane has one of the most thoughtfully designed panels out there including many features that have the potential to be life-saving (or pride-saving) in certain circumstances, and I hope the price I am asking is reasonable enough to attract serious buyers.

I don't know if any have done it after me, but I know I was the first EI customer to get the CGR-30C and configure it with only one arc gauge allowing it to be a drop-in replacement for the tachometer that also completely eliminates the need for the standard six-pack cluster gauge (while gaining fuel flow monitoring, a great caution and warning system, and digitally calibrated fuel levels that are precise in cruise). The shop that did the install couldn't find a place to install the data processing unit for the system and wanted to hang it somewhere below the bottom of the panel, but I helped them figure out how to put it at the top of the avionics bay where it's both out of the way and easily accessible for maintenance due to the luxury of having top access to the avionics. They designed and fabricated custom mounting bracket so it would fit at an angle like it needed to!

It has the charm of steam gauges mixed with the power of modern digital systems

[Conrad]

Oh and I was once informed by a (female) coworker that it needs to be named Trudy because it is "just the right amount of slutty." I'm not too sentimental about these sorts of things, but even I have to admit that the name has stuck. She's always gotten me back down when we go up, Trudy!

[Jim Peace]

1 hour ago, Paul Thomas said:

expect sharks to come and low offers.

That is the case no matter what is being sold....

[bigmo]

2 hours ago, Conrad said:

Does the price seem reasonable? 

Only because you asked - the simple answer is no. As mentioned above, you have a number of items really impacting your plane. 

Not in a 1-n, but the stand out issues are:

The engine is near TBO. That's ok for many people, but lenders won't touch a motor 85% through it's expected life. So, you're now dealing with an all cash buyer and that will really limit the market.

It's out of annual. Same as above, no lender, and most cash buyers are will not want to deal with the requirements to get it home just to find out what kind of project they have.

While I appreciate your transparency (and that's a good thing), what you've articulated is a project plane with the potential to be a MAJOR project even for someone that's willing to take it on.

Realistically, you've eliminated 90-95% of the market. There are a lot of pre-J's that are ready to fly away, have motor life left, and don't have a bunch of asterisks accompanying the purchase that are priced marginally above what you're asking. You're going to have to find someone that's willing to sign up for whatever they discover, and that's a risky proposition. I can't see anyone spending much more than what the collective parts are worth, yet hoping that with minimal finds, they can get her airworthy for $10-20K. 

I won't make a guess what that figure is, but it's well below your asking.

[Conrad]

As I say I'm motivated as a seller so if you're correct I'm willing to find the market on the price. Since I need the money I will still be looking for what I would consider a good offer, but maybe I need to think more carefully about who this might be a good deal for (and how to make it a good deal).

[MikeOH]

I haven't really seen it done with airplanes, but in your situation you might consider a Dutch auction.  You'll find the selling price and a buyer pretty quick.  Unlikely to be the best price you could have received, however.

[AndreiC]

As many have said above, $65k is high. The big question marks for me if I were looking at this plane (I’m not) would be if there is any corrosion in the airframe (biiig question — this could be game over) and if the engine will need to be immediately overhauled due to sitting outside for a while. 

If a mouse made its nest around the tube structure and peed there, it will cause corrosion (big money to fix, most planes with corrosion are trashed). If the camshaft got pitted from sitting, it’s overhaul time ($40-50k).

So your best bet would be, as suggested, to sink some money into it in the hope the news will be good. Get a good mechanic to check for corrosion, and do an annual, fly it 50-100 hours and you may be able to sell it, in annual, for perhaps $75-85k?

 

[Conrad]

Even were it my best option to sink some money in, I literally don't have the money to sink in. I have to sell it even if I get taken to the cleaner's, and that's OK with me.

Let's say I were willing to lower the price to 40k. Would there be any interest?

[Conrad]

The reason it's OK is that I've used my financial resources to be able to work for myself over the last four years laying the foundations of a company. Now it's the make or break moment for the company, cash is the absolute most valuable thing for me, and the amount of money we're talking about losing on this sale barely registers when compared with the returns I could see by succeeding with a software startup (a venture on which I have already bet a much greater amount of money).

My hope is that this situation can be to the benefit of someone in the Mooney community who is willing to risk getting sucked into a project.

[bigmo]

2 hours ago, Conrad said:

Even were it my best option to sink some money in, I literally don't have the money to sink in. I have to sell it even if I get taken to the cleaner's, and that's OK with me.

Let's say I were willing to lower the price to 40k. Would there be any interest?

There's a C model on eBay right now that's not too far off what you have (but it is at least in annual). Bidding is at $39K. So that's probably a good starting point. You could change your strategy to "Make Offer" here - that might entice someone that has time, skills, and the desire to get this thing flying again. Then run an auction with a reserve set at the floor that you can live with. Even used, that navigator is probably close to $10K - so you could think about cashing in on it and then getting less for the plane as a whole. 

Would be nice to see it flying again as opposed to yanked apart for parts.

[MikeOH]

With absolutely no backup information, totally my opinion, I think $40K is realistic.

[IvanP]

The fact that the plane is out of annual and has not been flying since 2022 will probably make it hard to sell for what you are asking. However, if sale is not feasible, you could explore teh possibility of donating it and taking a tax write-off. Talk to your accountant, he/she may have some ideas on how to get some cash out of it, albeit that would not be immediate cash in hand. 

[Joshua Blackh4t]

I bought my E in similar condition. So the deal we made:

I'd pay asking price but including an annual and 15hr warranty to check the cam didn't immediately spall.

I paid the deposit to the mechanic so the owner wasn't out of pocket. If he found anything major we would renegotiate.

I paid the rest on the understanding that in 15hrs I'd do an oil change and check for metal, if there was any, we would renegotiate what was fair.

Maybe you can sell it with similar warranty?

Good luck, i think its a practical plane, not a project, just needs some work.

 

[Conrad]

I would be open to a deal like the one you describe.

It's a bit silly having it Pennsylvania. I wonder if I could get a ferry permit to bring it to Boulder? I suspect I could do an annual a lot cheaper if the plane was parked minutes from my apt.

[bigmo]

You'll want to read up on FAR 21.197 on Special Flight Permits. The problem, like anything FAA, is that how that process works will be up to the local FSDO (where the plane is at, not where you are). It's not a tough process to go through, but the FSDO may not (probably won't) sign off on a cross country ferry for your convenience. If the plane were stuck in the middle of nowhere without access to maintenance - then yes. I'd do a little research on a compelling case to warrant a cross country flight. They're going to be thinking safety, not worried at all about saving you $.

Step 1 is getting an A&P (does not need to be an IA) to sign off that the aircraft is safe. That might be hard to get. I'm pretty sure that you have show that all ADs have been complied with (check the FAR for that). That A&P will do a pretty thorough inspection, but not an annual. Their livelihood is on the line, so you might not find a ton of guys lining up for that action.

Step 2 is getting the FSDO to approve your request.

Step 3 is getting permission from your insurance underwriter.

Step 4 is the easy part - day VFR flight to your ferry location.

IMO, it would be way easier to find a couple of local IAs, let them know you need to get the aircraft back in the sky under annual. But, you know how that annual lottery goes. Could hit paydirt with a $2500 annual, or hit craps with $12K. We've all been there...

 

 

[Hank]

@Conrad, it will certainly be worth your time to talk to an IA near the plane and get their opinion about getting a ferry permit. See what they need to do, what they think the FSDO will want to see, etc. Then comes the cost estimate and timing.

Flying the plane out on the ferry permit is easy, I did it once, just had to wait for VFR weather all the way. My flight was just an hour, so I don't remember if there is a time limit on the permit, if it's limited to a certain number of legs, what happens if the weather changes and you have to land, etc. Some of this you can investigate online, some you can add to the discussion with the IA, along with whether you intend to fly the plane yourself or hire a ferry pilot.

Good luck with this!

[Jim Peace]

Would probably come out way ahead (time,money,stress), with a no reserve auction where is as is. I would not want to deal with this plane for another year while throwing stupid money at it only to make a few extra dollars. 

[A64Pilot]

Ferry permit for the purpose of getting an annual is easy, helps if there is no IA where it’s at, makes you moving it logical. There is no distance limit. Are you current, Medical etc. if not find a pilot to go with you, them being the PIC, you be there to ensure they don’t wack your airplane

Really they are done every day Ferry flights that is.