Four (4) Mooney Mishaps In Four (4) Days - Three (3) Gear-ups and One (1) Crash On FAA ASIAS

[A64Pilot]

11 minutes ago, wombat said:

Of course you have to label everything.    I don't know why you would even consider not labeling it correctly.

Most  don’t in my experience I guess they are in too much of a hurry, I don’t know about your Mooney, but mine is full of inline fuses that I have no idea what they do. I guess I could climb under there, remove them one at a time and see what stopped working, as inflexible as I am with Arthritis I’m not though. So one day when something stops working I guess I’m going to spend an hour or two checking those fuses one at a time.

I’d bet lunch though that several don’t do anything at all, they were for equipment that’s no longer installed, which is pretty common in my experience.

Even for example I have a couple of CB’s labeled for equipment that’s no longer there, ADF comes to mind. You would think when it was un-installed they would have at least covered the label?

Edited September 18 by A64Pilot

[Shadrach]

On 9/14/2024 at 10:39 AM, Pinecone said:

They ask because you didn't say.  At least in the USAF, there is a call turning base or at the FAF that included "Gear Down."

Better is the Landing Height System.  Gives you altitude call outs (makes night landings a breeze) and at 200 feet AGL says Check Gear if it does not sense the gear handle in the Down position.

What type of Military fields?  I have flown into both Martin State and Niagara Falls Int in the last 60 days and I was not asked nor did I hear it asked of any of the other inbound traffic.  Both fields are active, joint Civil-Military airfields.

[wombat]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

Most  don’t in my experience I guess they are in too much of a hurry, I don’t know about your Mooney, but mine is full of inline fuses that I have no idea what they do. I guess I could climb under there, remove them one at a time and see what stopped working, as inflexible as I am with Arthritis I’m not though. So one day when something stops working I guess I’m going to spend an hour or two checking those fuses one at a time.

I’d bet lunch though that several don’t do anything at all, they were for equipment that’s no longer installed, which is pretty common in my experience.

Even for example I have a couple of CB’s labeled for equipment that’s no longer there, ADF comes to mind. You would think when it was un-installed they would have at least covered the label?

That's really disappointing.    I redid the CBs on my Cessna and labeled everything.  But before I started it there were several things that were mis-labeled because they'd been removed but the CB was still there.

I don't think my Mooney has any in-line fuses or mis-labeled CBs.

[kortopates]

I don't think my Mooney has any in-line fuses or mis-labeled CBs.

Unlikely, i can think of 5 in mine that the factory used and are in the schematic.


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[Pinecone]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

What type of Military fields?  I have flown into both Martin State and Niagara Falls Int in the last 60 days and I was not asked nor did I hear it asked of any of the other inbound traffic.  Both fields are active, joint Civil-Military airfields.

As in pure military.  At least on the USAF side.

At Martin State, when the A-10s are recovering, there is a truck with a qualified pilot at the approach end.  They have a radio, binoculars and a loaded flare gun.  

You won't hear their gear down calls, as they are using UHF, not VHF.  But they DO make the call.  And the person in the truck double checks the configuration for gear and flaps.  BTW, if doing a practice no flap, the call is Base, Gear Down, No Flap.

If the configuration does not match what the pilot on the ground sees, they call a go around on the radio.  If the pilot flying does not respond/react to the radio, they get a red flare fired.

[Shadrach]

13 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

As in pure military.  At least on the USAF side.

At Martin State, when the A-10s are recovering, there is a truck with a qualified pilot at the approach end.  They have a radio, binoculars and a loaded flare gun.  

You won't hear their gear down calls, as they are using UHF, not VHF.  But they DO make the call.  And the person in the truck double checks the configuration for gear and flaps.  BTW, if doing a practice no flap, the call is Base, Gear Down, No Flap.

If the configuration does not match what the pilot on the ground sees, they call a go around on the radio.  If the pilot flying does not respond/react to the radio, they get a red flare fired.

What are the repercussions to the pilot if the aircraft is not configured properly for the approach?

[MikeOH]

4 hours ago, Shadrach said:

What are the repercussions to the pilot if the aircraft is not configured properly for the approach?

Shot at with a red flare gun

[Pinecone]

8 hours ago, Shadrach said:

What are the repercussions to the pilot if the aircraft is not configured properly for the approach?

Reticule by all the other pilots.

More so if the RSU had to fire a flare.

A class mate made the base gear call on his first solo.  It was a bit compromised by the sound of the gear horn.  His instructor wanted to fire a flare.  But the student became known as Beep Beep.

[Aaviationist]

On 9/12/2024 at 2:44 PM, 1980Mooney said:

 

 

You may have noticed that this post by "Aviationist" is gone (actually all of his posts are gone).  His profile says that deleted his 76 posts about 45 minutes ago.  I wonder if he is one of the MS members with multiple screen names.

 

 

Seems people here have nothing better to do than make false accusations and resort to pettiness when confronted with information or data they don’t like or agree with. 
 

after being falsely accused of being a fake profile all my posts and account was removed without as much as a note or clarification from the admin. 
 

rest assured I’m not fake and I’m still here. 

[LANCECASPER]

On 9/12/2024 at 1:44 PM, 1980Mooney said:

You may have noticed that this post by "Aviationist" is gone (actually all of his posts are gone).  His profile says that deleted his 76 posts about 45 minutes ago. 

And what a peaceful, positive 7 weeks it was on here.

[Flyler]

The OXC accident was me.  Gear was down and had no indications of a problem, landed rather uneventfully until the right main then nose gear collapsed. Left remained down and locked throughout the incident.  No injuries, except my pride. I don't want to say anything inaccurate as I don't have solid answers yet (and not sure if I will).  Both pins on the nose gear bungees were sheared. Right retract rod in the belly bent.  That's really all we have right now.  The NTSB had the nose retract rods for a few weeks and sent them back already.

 

I'm fully onboard with learning from incidents and accidents but I completely understand why some pilots would be defensive or go quiet.  If I didn't have some witnesses, and an extremely grainy video, it would be hard not to assume it wasn't just a really hard landing.  Add to that the tendency to blame myself as a low-time pilot... It's hard!

 

All things considered, if we are calling it a "crash", one of the best crashes to be in as no one was hurt.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention - landing was on speed, it was a calm wind day.  Fourth landing of the day and they had gotten progressively smoother.  I'm not a pro like many of you with the buttery roll landings, but I will say that I was in love with how the Mooney landed.  I felt way more comfortable and confident in it than the Warrior.  That last landing where the gear collapsed, I had about a split second of time to mentally pat myself on the back for a nice touchdown.  Just about when I was ready to transition my feet up to be ready to apply the brakes, things started going south!  FAA guy says it will most likely be ruled "mechanical error, cause unknown" but we will need to wait for the NTSB's report.  I'm happy to answer questions to the best of my ability.

[Echo]

On 11/6/2024 at 10:58 AM, Flyler said:

The OXC accident was me.  Gear was down and had no indications of a problem, landed rather uneventfully until the right main then nose gear collapsed. Left remained down and locked throughout the incident.  No injuries, except my pride. I don't want to say anything inaccurate as I don't have solid answers yet (and not sure if I will).  Both pins on the nose gear bungees were sheared. Right retract rod in the belly bent.  That's really all we have right now.  The NTSB had the nose retract rods for a few weeks and sent them back already.

 

I'm fully onboard with learning from incidents and accidents but I completely understand why some pilots would be defensive or go quiet.  If I didn't have some witnesses, and an extremely grainy video, it would be hard not to assume it wasn't just a really hard landing.  Add to that the tendency to blame myself as a low-time pilot... It's hard!

 

All things considered, if we are calling it a "crash", one of the best crashes to be in as no one was hurt.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention - landing was on speed, it was a calm wind day.  Fourth landing of the day and they had gotten progressively smoother.  I'm not a pro like many of you with the buttery roll landings, but I will say that I was in love with how the Mooney landed.  I felt way more comfortable and confident in it than the Warrior.  That last landing where the gear collapsed, I had about a split second of time to mentally pat myself on the back for a nice touchdown.  Just about when I was ready to transition my feet up to be ready to apply the brakes, things started going south!  FAA guy says it will most likely be ruled "mechanical error, cause unknown" but we will need to wait for the NTSB's report.  I'm happy to answer questions to the best of my ability.

Sorry this happened.  Are you repairing?  Either way I hope you are back in the air soon.

[Ragsf15e]

On 11/6/2024 at 8:58 AM, Flyler said:

The OXC accident was me.  Gear was down and had no indications of a problem, landed rather uneventfully until the right main then nose gear collapsed. Left remained down and locked throughout the incident.  No injuries, except my pride. I don't want to say anything inaccurate as I don't have solid answers yet (and not sure if I will).  Both pins on the nose gear bungees were sheared. Right retract rod in the belly bent.  That's really all we have right now.  The NTSB had the nose retract rods for a few weeks and sent them back already.

 

I'm fully onboard with learning from incidents and accidents but I completely understand why some pilots would be defensive or go quiet.  If I didn't have some witnesses, and an extremely grainy video, it would be hard not to assume it wasn't just a really hard landing.  Add to that the tendency to blame myself as a low-time pilot... It's hard!

 

All things considered, if we are calling it a "crash", one of the best crashes to be in as no one was hurt.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention - landing was on speed, it was a calm wind day.  Fourth landing of the day and they had gotten progressively smoother.  I'm not a pro like many of you with the buttery roll landings, but I will say that I was in love with how the Mooney landed.  I felt way more comfortable and confident in it than the Warrior.  That last landing where the gear collapsed, I had about a split second of time to mentally pat myself on the back for a nice touchdown.  Just about when I was ready to transition my feet up to be ready to apply the brakes, things started going south!  FAA guy says it will most likely be ruled "mechanical error, cause unknown" but we will need to wait for the NTSB's report.  I'm happy to answer questions to the best of my ability.

Thank you for sharing, and you’re right, very happy nobody was hurt!

I also have a ‘68F model.  Any idea when the gear rigging was last checked? It should be at each annual, but did it actually happen?  And if yes, did the mechanic have the required mooney rigging tool?  I’m just curious.

It might be up earlier, but was it jbar or electric gear?  The’68 was built as jbar but some like mine were modified at the factory with electric.

Edited November 8 by Ragsf15e

[Flyler]

2 hours ago, Echo said:

Sorry this happened.  Are you repairing?  Either way I hope you are back in the air soon.

Thank you, I am too.  The future is unclear.  Hopefully next week I will know if it is repairable or totaled.  It sounds like it may be close enough that I can pick which one.  I'm a bit uneasy about it as I'm not sure if I'll be "reasonably" insurable after this.

 

The plane has electric gear.  Gear down light was on, and the gear safety horn never sounded.  The plane just came out of the shop to have the nosegear leg replaced, and was in annual.

[Echo]

50 minutes ago, Flyler said:

Thank you, I am too.  The future is unclear.  Hopefully next week I will know if it is repairable or totaled.  It sounds like it may be close enough that I can pick which one.  I'm a bit uneasy about it as I'm not sure if I'll be "reasonably" insurable after this.

 

The plane has electric gear.  Gear down light was on, and the gear safety horn never sounded.  The plane just came out of the shop to have the nosegear leg replaced, and was in annual.

I hope it all works out and you are made whole again.  Blue skies.  Scott

[kortopates]

My sympathies as well since either way you’ll be down for awhile. i really doubt it will hurt your insurability with the report saying the gear failed. But NTSB report won’t likely be out for a long time yet i am sure the adjusters report and estimate will show the damage to gear from it failing. i wouldn’t want to be shop or maintainer that just did the gear work as i am sure they are about to get proctologist exam from the FAA very soon.


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[Flyler]

32 minutes ago, kortopates said:

My sympathies as well since either way you’ll be down for awhile. i really doubt it will hurt your insurability with the report saying the gear failed. But NTSB report won’t likely be out for a long time yet i am sure the adjusters report and estimate will show the damage to gear from it failing. i wouldn’t want to be shop or maintainer that just did the gear work as i am sure they are about to get proctologist exam from the FAA very soon.


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I understand and appreciate your sentiment, but just to be clear- I'm not placing any blame on the shop that did the work.  Its a vintage plane and had been sitting for a while before I bought it.  I knew it came with some risks but this was... not what I was expecting!