Straight in Final

[201er]

Do you commonly fly straight in finals at untowered airports? Do you do this all the time, traffic permitting, or never? What kind of pattern entry do you fly if you are oriented for a straight in final?

What do you do if you are toward the end of downwind or already on base when conflicting traffic suddenly appears on final? Do you try to get ahead, behind, or get out of pattern all together? Do you get into arguments about this or say something about it on the radio?

[Marc_B]

In my mind this isn't that much different than a practice approach or traffic coming in on instrument approach.  But if at an uncontrolled field you have to be even more vigilant that you are watching and take into account aircraft without radios or ADS-B.

It's one thing if it appears the pattern is light/empty (no radio calls, no ADS-B traffic).  But if you see that the pattern is chocked full with ADS-b traffic, then that's another story.  Personally I find straight in traffic with a full pattern usually not a safe option.  If that's the case I'm usually overflying the field at ~1000 feet over TPA to get a sense for flow, then coming back around on a 45 entry with my best guess on spacing.  Sometimes the better option is a straight in on the non-intersecting crosswind runway to avoid a packed pattern.  Sometimes the best option is to come back in 15-20 min.

[EricJ]

+1 that it's not much different than practicing an instrument approach at an untowered airport.    You just have to be aware of other traffic and work with them to maintain spacing.    Much of the traffic around here is training aircraft from the various flight schools, so they're usually well aware of the issues and easy to work with.     At some untowered airports, e.g., Sedona, a fair amount of the traffic will be private jets that aren't interested in flying a pattern regardless, and may not be very interested in working with other traffic to maintain spacing.   So sometimes you're on your own to just make the space you need, anyway.

I'll do straight ins at airports where there isn't any traffic, but if there is traffic or even traffic expected it's usually easier to just make an expected pattern entry.   Some airports, e.g., Lake Havasu, may indicate specific pattern entries in their supplement, or even specify no straight-in approaches.   Catalina does this as well, but it's not in their supplement.

[1980Mooney]

When approaching and landing straight-in on a runway at an uncontrolled, seemingly quiet, airport, there are other hazards than unannounced traffic in the air. 
 

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/346120

 

[hammdo]

Need a none of the above or negotiate with traffic. If they are not talking, I make my decision earlier and do a 45 or midfield entry as appropriate.  Sometimes I’ll break off and overfly the field at 1000 higher than traffic pattern to get a layout of the traffic. That is why most of the times i goto towered airports on trips.

Straight in does not have priority and should work to get into the flow of traffic - except maybe IFR on a IMC day ;o)

-Don

[Mooneymite]

Uncontrolled airports pose special hazards to jet traffic for lots of reasons.  Basically jets and slower props are incompatible, but following the AIM can add to the complexity of mixed traffic.  In all reality, a jet doing a straight in can be advantageous...for everyone.

Jets fly wider and faster patterns and generally are a pain for everyone else to keep track of.  The bizjets I flew had limited out-the-widow view when turning.  Then jets are supposed to fly a pattern 500' above the slower traffic and descend through the prop traffic.   Guess how the visibility is under the nose of that jet as it slows to approach speed is as it descends!

I hear stories about arrogant jet pilots pushing the little guys around, but I've never seen it.  We were always terrified of a midair, and would fly miles out of our way to make sure Mr. Moneybags in the back had a safe and comfortable ride.  We always appreciated when other pilots volunteered to let us fly straight-ins to minimize maneuvering and reduce our time in the pattern.  If you were one of those pilots....thank you.

Thank you, very much!

 

[Shadrach]

I used to be comfortable picking whatever pattern leg was convenient to my inbound track.  I once had a conflict with a NORDO Aeronca Chief that I did not see against the ground cover and cut him off while he was on base. He walked over as I was tying down and made me aware of what I had done. He then introduced himself as Bill Pancake (those in the Aeronca community will know that name). It was clear that his chances of seeing me were limited by his right wing. I drove right into his pattern. 
Since then I reserve non standard approaches for controlled fields.

[N201MKTurbo]

Your question about what you would do if you are on downwind and somebody reports straight in has two correct answers. Turn in ahead of them and turn in behind them. It depends on where they are and how fast they are going. 
 

I was landing at KBFF. back in the 80s. It is uncontrolled but had airline service. I was on downwind and a Frontier 737s first call was “you better get that little airplane out of here so I don’t hit you”

[jetdriven]

So who creates the bigger hazard here, somebody who was choosing to fly a Nordo aircraft or somebody who enters a leg of the pattern?  As far as I know, there’s really no reason not to have some kind of COM radio. That’s not justification for creating imminent collision hazard. And furthermore, even if you did enter the pattern on the 45 you can still cut off his downwind or run him over in the pattern. It doesn’t mitigate the imminent risk created by an aircraft that doesn’t have a radio.

[PeteMc]

I didn't answer #3 because there is a BIG difference if I've already turned Base or I just entered the DW.

Odds are if I'm on Base I'm going to speak up and say I'm already on Base (even though I would have called that when I was making the turn).  And I'm sure not going to turn back toward DW in case they really are not lined up with the Extended Centerline.  

If I'm just entering on the 45 or already in the DW, it's a judgement call.  Now days you can see most planes on ADS-B, so I might tell them it looks like I'm closer and am continuing in.  Or they could be closer and I'd tell them I'll extend a bit and follow them in.  

Obviously, in no situation am I going to puff up my chest and get right in front of them BECAUSE I CAN!!  Though if they do really cut in, I may take a pic of the N# when I get on the ground.  It might just make them wonder who I as going to send it to.   (Hmmm...  and I wonder if I have a recording of the radio calls....)

 

[Hank]

37 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Your question about what you would do if you are on downwind and somebody reports straight in has two correct answers. Turn in ahead of them and turn in behind them. It depends on where they are and how fast they are going. 
 

I was landing at KBFF. back in the 80s. It is uncontrolled but had airline service. I was on downwind and a Frontier 737s first call was “you better get that little airplane out of here so I don’t hit you”

I went into a Towered field with limited commercial service a few years back. As I was approaching midfield, per Tower about 4-5 miles out on downwind, they asked if I could make a short approach for incoming jet traffic (not yet visible). So I reduced throttle, dropped gear, turned base not far beyond the threshold (you can lose a lot of altitude on a 4-mile base leg, especially when you'll have < 1/2 mile final), turned final, landed, taxied about a mile and a half to the ramp off the approach end, parked, got out and was unloading baggage when I looked up and saw the jet on final . . . . Sometimes it's all about expectations. 

I've also shared the pattern with turboprop twins and business jets, listening to their calls as they approached, making my own and coordinating landing with them based on who got there first. I landed before the twin, who entered the pattern well behind me, and watched the jet fly a constant-banked downwind / base / final as i was enterinf downwind; he actually paused his taxi to the ramp to watch my touchdown, before i turned in a different direction,

Be clear, be polite, and work things out--that's why we have radios. If the other guy doesn't have a radio or isn't using it, do whatever is safest, which may be landing and may be leaving the pattern, flying a 2-minute 360 and starting over again.

Remember, you aren't right because it's you; the other guy isn't wrong because he's him; and all traffic won't show up on your ADS-B (like me!  ).

[MB65E]

The Overhead works really well in Moonies, Falcons, and CJ’s. :-)!!

-Matt

[N201MKTurbo]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

I went into a Towered field with limited commercial service a few years back. As I was approaching midfield, per Tower about 4-5 miles out on downwind, they asked if I could make a short approach for incoming jet traffic (not yet visible). So I reduced throttle, dropped gear, turned base not far beyond the threshold (you can lose a lot of altitude on a 4-mile base leg, especially when you'll have < 1/2 mile final), turned final, landed, taxied about a mile and a half to the ramp off the approach end, parked, got out and was unloading baggage when I looked up and saw the jet on final . . . . Sometimes it's all about expectations. 

I've also shared the pattern with turboprop twins and business jets, listening to their calls as they approached, making my own and coordinating landing with them based on who got there first. I landed before the twin, who entered the pattern well behind me, and watched the jet fly a constant-banked downwind / base / final as i was enterinf downwind; he actually paused his taxi to the ramp to watch my touchdown, before i turned in a different direction,

Be clear, be polite, and work things out--that's why we have radios. If the other guy doesn't have a radio or isn't using it, do whatever is safest, which may be landing and may be leaving the pattern, flying a 2-minute 360 and starting over again.

Remember, you aren't right because it's you; the other guy isn't wrong because he's him; and all traffic won't show up on your ADS-B (like me!  ).

At the time I was flying every day. I flew about 800 hours that year. I was going there to work on equipment at the Frontier Airlines ticket counter. I told the station manager how inconsiderate and unsafe his captain was. He explained the current union and company problems and told me they were all on edge and to cut him some slack.

[jetdriven]

Those dang unions, I tell you.  

[Hank]

10 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

At the time I was flying every day. I flew about 800 hours that year. I was going there to work on equipment at the Frontier Airlines ticket counter. I told the station manager how inconsiderate and unsafe his captain was. He explained the current union and company problems and told me they were all on edge and to cut him some slack.

First come, first serve. If I can land first without conflict, I will. I have, I will continue to. There is no place for arrogance, and there are explicit rules written by the FAA to handle straight in approaches at uncontrolled fields, which can be briefly summed up as "fit into the flow of existing traffic, even if it means flying a pattern."

Arrogant corporate / union jet jocks can enjoy breathing my avgas exhaust while they go around . . . .

[N201MKTurbo]

18 minutes ago, Hank said:

First come, first serve. If I can land first without conflict, I will. I have, I will continue to. There is no place for arrogance, and there are explicit rules written by the FAA to handle straight in approaches at uncontrolled fields, which can be briefly summed up as "fit into the flow of existing traffic, even if it means flying a pattern."

Arrogant corporate / union jet jocks can enjoy breathing my avgas exhaust while they go around . . . .

I agree completely, but this guy didn’t sound like he had any intention of going around no matter what. There was no recording of the transmissions or the radar tracks and he would burn through his CVR before anything could be done about it. If it came down to a he said she said kind of a thing, who are they going to believe, a 28 year old private pilot or a seasoned airline captain? He was just being an a-hole. If he would have asked nicely, I would have given way, but his attitude was very unprofessional.

[Hank]

22 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I agree completely, but this guy didn’t sound like he had any intention of going around no matter what. There was no recording of the transmissions or the radar tracks and he would burn through his CVR before anything could be done about it. If it came down to a he said she said kind of a thing, who are they going to believe, a 28 year old private pilot or a seasoned airline captain? He was just being an a-hole. If he would have asked nicely, I would have given way, but his attitude was very unprofessional.

There are bad apples in every barrel. 

[Shadrach]

On 8/31/2024 at 8:36 PM, jetdriven said:

So who creates the bigger hazard here, somebody who was choosing to fly a Nordo aircraft or somebody who enters a leg of the pattern?  As far as I know, there’s really no reason not to have some kind of COM radio. That’s not justification for creating imminent collision hazard. And furthermore, even if you did enter the pattern on the 45 you can still cut off his downwind or run him over in the pattern. It doesn’t mitigate the imminent risk created by an aircraft that doesn’t have a radio.

 

Those are good points. We can never mitigate all risks. Standard pattern entry does not guarantee that there won’t be conflicts, however it certainly provides some additional benefit over entering the pattern at whatever pattern leg and altitude is convenient to one inbound individual. Like it or not there are still a significant number of 75 + year old aircraft out there flying around with no electrical system. Most of them avoid busy, metropolitan and surrounding areas out of common sense. When I’m flying into country airports in low density parts of the country, I think it’s common sense to take into consideration that NORDO operations are still a thing In rural areas.

A common entry point (more or less) and altitude does a lot to mitigate over me/under me and over wing/ under wing blindspots.  I may not like that Bill was out there flying is Aeronca without a radio but he’s perfectly legal to do so. Me not liking it won’t change the fact that if we had had midair, we’d both probably be dead and the NTSB report would have most certainly referenced a Mooney flying a non-standard pattern as a contributing factor.

[Vance Harral]

I didn't vote in the poll because the options are too static, as others mentioned.

One thing that hasn't been brought up yet is that my behavior varies a little if I can make a pretty good guess about the capabilities of the other pilot(s) on frequency.  Consider being straight in on an RNAV practice approach and hearing:

Foobar traffic, bugsmasher 12345, midfield downwind for XX, we can extend for traffic on the RNAV.

... versus ...

Uh, Foobar traffic, this is... November 12345.... downwind... for... runway XX, student solo... Foobar.

In the latter case, I'm happy to maneuver in a way that lets N12345 fly what seems like a normal pattern to them.  That's partly for safety, but mostly for courtesy and kindness.  I was a student solo once too.

[jetdriven]

5 hours ago, Shadrach said:

 

Those are good points. We can never mitigate all risks having everyone enter the pattern at a 45° to the downwind at patten altitude. Standard pattern entry does not guarantee that there won’t be conflicts, however it certainly provides some additional benefit over entering the pattern at whatever pattern leg and altitude is convenient to one inbound individual. Like it or not there are still a significant number of 75 + year old aircraft out there flying around with no electrical system. Most of them avoid busy, metropolitan and surrounding areas out of common sense. When I’m flying into country airports in low density parts of the country, I think it’s common sense to take into consideration that NORDO operations are still a thing In rural areas.

A common entry point (more or less) and altitude does a lot to mitigate over me/under me and over wing/ under wing blindspots.  I may not like that Bill was out there flying is Aeronca without a radio but he’s perfectly legal to do so. May not liking it won’t change the fact that if we had had midair, we’d both probably be dead and the NTSB report would have most certainly referenced a Mooney flying a non-standard pattern as a contributing factor.

Straight in final, or a left 45° pattern, midfield entry, or a base entry, or a midfield Crosswind entry to turn downwind are all standard pattern entries. On one hand, we want to hold the guy with no radio that could buy a handheld and plug it into his headset is perfectly legal to be there, but at the same time we can’t hold that anybody who makes turns to the left in the vicinity of the airport is somehow being a cowboy and being nonstandard.
 I’m here to argue the less time you spend maneuvering in the airport area and the less miles you fly in that vicinity below 1200 feet is also less chance you have of crashing into somebody because you’re not flying over the airport 500 feet above, (which is also the same TPA as a turbine airplane, by the way,) and then making a right turn in the vicinity of the airport to then line up for a 45° downwind or overrun them because the speeds are incompatible.  A straight in final is 3 miles in the airport environment. A 90 midfield left turn to downwind is also about 2.5 miles or so. Crossing midfield to fly 2 miles out and then descend and join the downwind is something like 7 or maybe 8 miles.  Consider taking a look at it from that angle. 

[GeeBee]

One time, I was going into Starkville, MS in a 757. The F/O asked if I wanted to do straight in. I said, "Let's do this right and by the book" and I entered a 45 and flew a full pattern. I ended up clearing every airplane out of the pattern due to wake turbulence fears. It would have been better to do a straight in for all the airplanes in the pattern, less change of a wake encounter for them and quicker for me. 

[midlifeflyer]

I couldn’t really use those answers because I think it’s more situationally nuanced. More an essay question than multiple choice.

if I’m flying an instrument approach, real or practiced, of course it’s straight in unless I’m planning a circle to land on a different runway. And if I’m coming VFR from an appropriate direction, I plan straight in, traffic permitting.

Conflicting traffic on downwind? My nontowered home base can get busy so it happens regularly, but we seem to work it out. 90+% of the time downwind will offer to extend. And the straight in says, “thank you.” If not, as the straight in traffic, I will break it off and return on a 45.

I've never been in a base-final conflict but if I were the straight in, I’d break it off. If I were caught situationally unaware in base, I’d break off my approach too.

 

[802flyer]

When planning a descent to an untowered field, I’ll keep an eye on the traffic in the pattern on ForeFlight (easier to see relative to the various runways than on the garmin traffic display) from 50ish miles out, to get a sense of who’s around or approaching. If the pattern is empty, I’ll fly a straight in if that’s easiest.

But if there will be traffic flying the pattern when I arrive, I’ll just adjust my descent profile a bit (fairly small corrections if made early….5000ft+ and 20miles out) to end up on the proper side of the field for a 45deg downwind entry. Not a big fan of the 500ft-above-TPA midfield overfly because I don’t trust other arrivals to already be down to pattern altitude by the time they reach downwind.

It’s easy enough to spin the heading bug ~10deg and shallow out the descent a bit, to place myself appropriately for a 5ish mile 45deg downwind entry, adjusted for traffic. At 160+ knots descending in the Mooney, that adds maybe 2 minutes to my flight time, while giving me several miles and a few thousand feet of clearance from all the people doing weird stuff in the pattern. Once I see my gap, I’ll make the turn for my 45deg entry.


Regarding the OPs initial question about conflicts, I’d hope that making my own position reports in a timely fashion, monitoring traffic displays and unicom from a ways out, and perhaps asking conflicting traffic about their intentions would allow for small early adjustments to make everything work. Thankfully I haven’t run into the traffic-suddenly-appears-out-of-nowhere-on-final scenario yet, and short of a NORDO straight-in, it seems improbable or at least infrequent. But I’m flying the Mooney for fun and so a few extra minutes here or there don’t bother me; I would much rather extend or do a 360 than get into a pissing match when conflicting traffic doesn’t have the self-awareness to realize they are making a non-standard entry and adjust accordingly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, 802flyer said:

When planning a descent to an untowered field, I’ll keep an eye on the traffic in the pattern on ForeFlight (easier to see relative to the various runways than on the garmin traffic display) from 50ish miles out, to get a sense of who’s around or approaching. If the pattern is empty, I’ll fly a straight in if that’s easiest.

One of my "tricks" with both VFR Flight Following and when IFR, is to begin to monitor the CTAF on comm 2  immediately after listing to the AWOS. It seems to have had a number of benefits. Once (captured in a video), my approach clearance was being delayed because of a departure. ATC had to wait until they checked in. I knew when they took off which helps with situational awareness in terms of anticipating when the clearance would come.

[slowflyin]

13 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

One of my "tricks" with both VFR Flight Following and when IFR, is to begin to monitor the CTAF on comm 2  immediately after listing to the AWOS. It seems to have had a number of benefits. Once (captured in a video), my approach clearance was being delayed because of a departure. ATC had to wait until they checked in. I knew when they took off which helps with situational awareness in terms of anticipating when the clearance would come.

This works  for me as well.