Help pick my avionics

[Fly Boomer]

1 minute ago, hubcap said:

The G3x cannot legally be used as an IFR GPS Navigator using its built-in GPS. It is legal to use the internal GPS for VFR flight.

It is perfectly legal to use the G3x as a PFD while using a certified GPS navigator like the GTN 650xi.

If I ever update my panel, I have a lot to learn.

[Max Clark]

23 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

If I ever update my panel, I have a lot to learn.

I've learned that the rabbit hole is really deep.

[Max Clark]

Next question (lol) - remote audio

Assuming I go with the G3x should I get the GMA 245R (G3x control) or GMA 35c (GTN control)?

[StevenL757]

10 minutes ago, Max Clark said:

Next question (lol) - remote audio

Assuming I go with the G3x should I get the GMA 245R (G3x control) or GMA 35c (GTN control)?

Neither.  Obviously an individual decision (like everything else), unless panel space is at a premium, I’d go with a PS Engineering PMA450B or 450C.  @Mscheuer can speak to their features.  :-)

Premium hardware at reasonable price points.  I’ve had three different models…never a glitch.

[Max Clark]

Going to clean everything up and be ready to install an MFD down the road. I won't have the space to keep the audio in the panel.

[shawnd]

1 hour ago, Max Clark said:

I've learned that the rabbit hole is really deep.

Amen - if you are really interested in details, you may end up doing all the research for your installer  I got lucky with a guy who is willing to partner up and work with me while maintaining a high bar and pushing back when needed. Good combo.

 

[Pinecone]

6 hours ago, Max Clark said:

Going to clean everything up and be ready to install an MFD down the road. I won't have the space to keep the audio in the panel.

I put PS 450B and 750Xi and 650Xi and kept the annunciator panel.  I did put the auto pilot controller above the throttle to the left of the stack.

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, hubcap said:

The G3x cannot legally be used as an IFR GPS Navigator using its built-in GPS. It is legal to use the internal GPS for VFR flight.

Could you in a pinch? Yes.  But the database only has the FAF to MAP in the G3X.  Not missed approach procedure either.

 

[Max Clark]

I just realized that part of this decision might have already been made for me. I need to measure the panel space when I get the plane back from annual, but I'm not even sure that a GTN650 will fit (even removing the audio panel from the stack).

[Marc_B]

On 9/10/2024 at 7:30 AM, Max Clark said:

Next question (lol) - remote audio

Assuming I go with the G3x should I get the GMA 245R (G3x control) or GMA 35c (GTN control)?

The radio stack always is full, but there's ways to leverage that.  I have the GMA35 and I like it.  I use the Garmin Telligence (link attached) routinely and have buttons on the right horn of the pilot yoke for Playback and for PTC (push to command) for the Telligence.  These are routinely used.  It also has spatial audio so that Comm1 is louder in the left ear and Comm2 is louder in the right when monitoring a second channel.  I have the GTN750/650 and so I don't miss the data fields that were lost on the GTN750 for the audio controls, these are normally on the default nav page, and I still have 4 user fields on the map page.

In the radio stack I was able to put the GMC507 (GFC500 control head), GTN750Xi, and GTN650Xi by working with International Avionics Inc to get a single row annuniciator built (mine previously was a double row and that was a tad bit too big).

So if you're torn, I'd suggest you find someone that has the options you are considering and go sit in their planes to see which you'd prefer.  You'll find those with PS audio panels that like theirs, but you'll also find those with Garmin remote audio panels that like theirs just as much.  But from the ability to put more in the radio stack and leverage your panel space...there's no contest with a remote audio that mounts behind the GTN.  The other clear pro from the GMA is that it really leverages the GTN and allows you to quickly go where you want.  Show music page, show destination weather page, say ETE to destination, Say bearing and distance from destination airport...its pretty comprehensive what it can help you with.

[BlueSky247]

On 9/10/2024 at 9:24 AM, Max Clark said:

I've learned that the rabbit hole is really deep.

Yes Sir, and it's mighty spendy all the way down. 

[Marc_B]

2 hours ago, Max Clark said:

I just realized that part of this decision might have already been made for me. I need to measure the panel space when I get the plane back from annual, but I'm not even sure that a GTN650 will fit (even removing the audio panel from the stack).

Also keep in mind as a backup, that some things can be moved out of the radio stack.  i.e. @kortopates moved his annunciator to the right to free up space in the radio stack.  This was my backup plan if it didn't work to condense my annunciator to a single row with IAI.

 

 

[shawnd]

1 hour ago, Marc_B said:

In the radio stack I was able to put the GMC507 (GFC500 control head), GTN750Xi, and GTN650Xi by working with International Avionics Inc to get a single row annuniciator built (mine previously was a double row and that was a tad bit too big)

@Marc_B do you have the contacts at International Avionics still handy? That’s pretty neat that they were able to help with that request after so many years. 

[1980Mooney]

On 9/10/2024 at 8:01 AM, Fly Boomer said:

If I ever update my panel, I have a lot to learn.

Lesson #1 - Get ready to spend lots of $$$$…..

[shawnd]

Here's my take on it:

Lesson 0 - be ready to spend a lot of money
Lesson 1 - get the initial estimate and prepare for shock
Lesson 2 - start adding all the add-ons b/c this is "THE" opportunity to do so
Lesson 3 - be prepared to spend a lot more money
Lesson 4 - watch the bank account get empty 
Lesson 5 - it's all good - you have brand spankin' new panel and you are proud of your baby! 

[EricJ]

On 9/6/2024 at 3:04 PM, Vance Harral said:

The fancier the high-end stuff you install, the more spare room there is for that old-school bling.

This is not a Mooney, but you get the idea.  This particular owner lacks not for cash, and installed dual G500TXi 7" displays, GTN 750 with remote audio panel and transponder, GI-275 for backup attitude... but that's a "cheap" #2 NAV/COM driving a mechanical CDI in an otherwise $75K-ish panel.

I just flew a long cross country out and back in this experimental, which seems similar, and is very nice.  

[Vance Harral]

That's a nice looking panel.  I'm not sure why the owner of the airplane I posted the picture of opted for the smaller 7" displays vs. the 12" displays in your pic.  But my point in posting the photo was to note that the #2 NAV/COM and its accompanying CDI are "old school", even in that very high end panel.  There would be plenty of room in the panel you posted for such a thing too, but that is not the choice that was made.  Looks like it's just a single GTN for NAV/COM/GPS, and nothing wrong with that in a VFR airplane (maybe nothing wrong with that in an IFR airplane, but I'll leave that debate to others).

[Marc_B]

6 hours ago, shawnd said:

do you have the contacts at International Avionics still handy?

https://www.internationalavionics.com/

3782 Arapaho Road Addison, TX 75001-4311

855-417-2820

Ken Pethe is the president/CEO and their lead tech is Kenneth Snowden.  IAI is landlocked so they don't have the ability to work on an aircraft but rather just do bench work.  IAI was the source for most of the annunciators, some voltage regulators, and I think some other equipment for Mooney.

 

[WheelPantsOff]

On 9/12/2024 at 6:09 PM, Marc_B said:

https://www.internationalavionics.com/

3782 Arapaho Road Addison, TX 75001-4311

855-417-2820

Ken Pethe is the president/CEO and their lead tech is Kenneth Snowden.  IAI is landlocked so they don't have the ability to work on an aircraft but rather just do bench work.  IAI was the source for most of the annunciators, some voltage regulators, and I think some other equipment for Mooney.

 

Good morning guys,

Is IAI still in business?  I called this morning, both of their telephone numbers, and some Spanish-speaking lady answered and abruptly hung up.  They haven't replied to my email from a few days ago either.

Thanks in advance!

[Marc_B]

@WheelPantsOff I sent you a message. 
 

Sounds like the lead tech at IAI was severely injured over the summer and still hasn’t returned to work. So they’re working to get some coverage and get caught up.  Sounds like he was responsible for all the repair station work and it’s really put a wrench in things. That’s too bad as I worked closely with Kenneth on my annunciator as well as voltage regulators.  But hopefully they’ll get things back up in the near future. 

[WheelPantsOff]

6 hours ago, Marc_B said:

@WheelPantsOff I sent you a message. 
 

Sounds like the lead tech at IAI was severely injured over the summer and still hasn’t returned to work. So they’re working to get some coverage and get caught up.  Sounds like he was responsible for all the repair station work and it’s really put a wrench in things. That’s too bad as I worked closely with Kenneth on my annunciator as well as voltage regulators.  But hopefully they’ll get things back up in the near future. 

Thanks again, Marc.  I greatly appreciate and value your help!

Have a safe evening!

[hubcap]

On 9/10/2024 at 3:58 PM, Pinecone said:

Could you in a pinch? Yes.  But the database only has the FAF to MAP in the G3X.  Not missed approach procedure either.

 

I actually used the internal GPS on the G3x to shoot an approach with the GFC500. I did this test in VFR conditions just to see how it would perform. It performed just as good as the GTN650 down to the MAP.

[Max Clark]

1 hour ago, hubcap said:

I actually used the internal GPS on the G3x to shoot an approach with the GFC500. I did this test in VFR conditions just to see how it would perform. It performed just as good as the GTN650 down to the MAP.

Were you able to load the approach on the G3x or did you create your flightplan using waypoints and vnav?

I'm not surprised to hear this, how different is GPS between the GTN and G3x?

[hubcap]

11 hours ago, Max Clark said:

Were you able to load the approach on the G3x or did you create your flightplan using waypoints and vnav?

I'm not surprised to hear this, how different is GPS between the GTN and G3x?

I sat up the approach like I was using my GTN650 only the G3x was set for internal GPS rather than external.

[Max Clark]

5 hours ago, hubcap said:

I sat up the approach like I was using my GTN650 only the G3x was set for internal GPS rather than external.

Awesome - figured as much just haven't tried it yet.