airworthiness directives service subscriptions/service question

[jamesm]

Is there known good aircraft airworthiness directives service subscriptions or method  that people use  or Suggest?

or one's to stay away from ?

Thanks in advance,

James '67C

[EricJ]

Some people don't like it because it's different than the old system, but the FAA site is free and effective if you learn how to use it.   There are some good vids on youtube regarding how to do effective searches that are worth watching.

https://drs.faa.gov/browse

[toto]

6 hours ago, jamesm said:

Is there known good aircraft airworthiness directives service subscriptions or method  that people use  or Suggest?

or one's to stay away from ?

Thanks in advance,

James '67C

I still use ADLOG

https://adlog.com/

[Vance Harral]

I've never used a paid system like Adlog.  But years of doing my own AD research has convinced me that the value in such a service would not be in the nice paperwork they produce.  The value is almost entirely in the extent to which they can hunt down ADs issued against "appliances" that may or may not be attached to your aircraft.  Anyone care to speak to that?

To elaborate, it doesn't take much knowledge or skill to produce a list of ADs against a particular airframe/engine/prop combo, but appliances are insidious.  An AD issued against the magnetos in your airplane is not going to show up under "Mooney" or "Lycoming".  Neither is one issued against your ADS-B out Tailbeacon, your Saf-Air oil quick drain, and so on.  Obviously a vendor cannot provide you with good service in this respect without a lot of input from you, the owner.  So there's really no way around the responsibility of understanding what components on your airplane, who manufactured them, and what their serial numbers are, so as to keep an eye out for ADs issued against them that aren't going to show up under "Mooney".  Accepting that responsibility seems to me to obviate much of the value of a vendor AD service.  People understandably sign up for those services because they want a professional to help them be responsible for ensuring they know about all ADs applicable to their airplane.  But I'm not sure those professional services can help much with anything other than the grossly obvious.

Frankly, I think you can do about as well just monitoring our community here on Mooneyspace.  People were posting about the recent elevator counterweight AD before it even became official.  I'm certain those of us here were better informed, sooner, than someone who was waiting on Adlog or similar service to tell them about it.  And that's for an airframe AD.  We're also a lot more likely to tell you when an AD has been issued against V-band clamps on turbochargers, Garmin autopilots, etc. vs. waiting for a vendor to tell you about it.

 

[Fly Boomer]

41 minutes ago, Vance Harral said:

I've never used a paid system like Adlog.  But years of doing my own AD research has convinced me that the value in such a service would not be in the nice paperwork they produce.  The value is almost entirely in the extent to which they can hunt down ADs issued against "appliances" that may or may not be attached to your aircraft.  Anyone care to speak to that?

To elaborate, it doesn't take much knowledge or skill to produce a list of ADs against a particular airframe/engine/prop combo, but appliances are insidious.  An AD issued against the magnetos in your airplane is not going to show up under "Mooney" or "Lycoming".  Neither is one issued against your ADS-B out Tailbeacon, your Saf-Air oil quick drain, and so on.  Obviously a vendor cannot provide you with good service in this respect without a lot of input from you, the owner.  So there's really no way around the responsibility of understanding what components on your airplane, who manufactured them, and what their serial numbers are, so as to keep an eye out for ADs issued against them that aren't going to show up under "Mooney".  Accepting that responsibility seems to me to obviate much of the value of a vendor AD service.  People understandably sign up for those services because they want a professional to help them be responsible for ensuring they know about all ADs applicable to their airplane.  But I'm not sure those professional services can help much with anything other than the grossly obvious.

Frankly, I think you can do about as well just monitoring our community here on Mooneyspace.  People were posting about the recent elevator counterweight AD before it even became official.  I'm certain those of us here were better informed, sooner, than someone who was waiting on Adlog or similar service to tell them about it.  And that's for an airframe AD.  We're also a lot more likely to tell you when an AD has been issued against V-band clamps on turbochargers, Garmin autopilots, etc. vs. waiting for a vendor to tell you about it.

 

^^^THIS^^^

In the end, it's up to each owner.

[N201MKTurbo]

The best thing you can do is make your own AD spreadsheet. That way you can update it as new ADs come up and keep track of the recurring ADs. It would be good to have a seperate worksheet for each item to search for such as airframe, engine, prop, avionics etc. Getting a printout from ADLOG at every annual ends up being a mess. After a while you have a folder full of ADLOG printouts. It would be good to have a column that specifies where in the logbooks the AD was signed off such as "Airframe 3-25-78" so you can find the signoff if necessary. I would put the search terms in some header rows at the top of the spreadsheet along with the model and serial number and overhaul date if it matters. This way you don't have to figure it out every time. When the annual comes up, all you have to do is put in the search criteria and see if there are any newer than your newest one. You could do the whole search in a few minutes. This could save you a bunch of money if the IA is charging by the hour for his work. Remember the IA is responsible for inspecting the airplane which includes researching ADs, but if you fly the airplane, you as the operator is responsible for making sure that it is airworthy, not the IA. If the IA misses one and you fly the plane and something happens because of it, you are both in trouble. Think of the annual as a second set of eyes on the airworthiness of the airplane, not the only set of eyes on it. You as the owner and operator are primarily responsible for airworthiness.

I notice a lot of the AD printouts have a signature line for every AD. This seems kind of weird. What does that signature really mean? When an AD is complied with it is required that a record of it is made in the permanent record (logbook). That would be the legal compliance statement. Does the signature on the printout supersede the logbook entry? I don't think so. If it does, does this mean the printouts are part of the permanent record and must be kept for ever?

What about ADs that don't apply? There are usually more of them than ones that do apply. Especially with engines. I don't think there is any requirement to log anything about them, although keeping a record of why they don't apply in the spreadsheet will save a lot of time if anybody asks. 

[jamesm]

I have tried creating my own spreadsheet it seem like every year however much like a new year's resolution I never seem to finish it or I get side track or keep changing the formatting of the spreadsheet. The last time I tried to do AD's search from the FAA AD's (DRS or whatever it's called) web site, it seem like when I did Engine or Appliance AD's, I was getting varying number of AD's  from the search output. I would try putting in say serial number or no symbols in part number / model number as means method as a cross check to verify  number of AD's were correct and valid. Since I wasn't getting the results that I was expecting I am suspecting  the my search strings are causing issue with the search engine, or am I missing something? Also helps foreknowledge of  various history of the Engine and appliances manufactures.

The reason I am asking  as I hoping to do a check ride this year (fingers crossed), one of the DPE was asking see AD's  and history. Now grant most DPE's may not look to this degree AD log but I figured if I used  well known AD database it wouldn't cause question. My thought was if I did outside AD search say every 5 to 10years it would be a way cross check my work make sure thing don't slip through the cracks. I am looking into getting my IA in the future but haven't decided yet. They are getting hard to come by.

Thanks for everyone's input.

James '67C

 

[EricJ]

5 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

I've never used a paid system like Adlog.  But years of doing my own AD research has convinced me that the value in such a service would not be in the nice paperwork they produce.  The value is almost entirely in the extent to which they can hunt down ADs issued against "appliances" that may or may not be attached to your aircraft.  Anyone care to speak to that?

To elaborate, it doesn't take much knowledge or skill to produce a list of ADs against a particular airframe/engine/prop combo, but appliances are insidious.  An AD issued against the magnetos in your airplane is not going to show up under "Mooney" or "Lycoming".  Neither is one issued against your ADS-B out Tailbeacon, your Saf-Air oil quick drain, and so on.  Obviously a vendor cannot provide you with good service in this respect without a lot of input from you, the owner.  So there's really no way around the responsibility of understanding what components on your airplane, who manufactured them, and what their serial numbers are, so as to keep an eye out for ADs issued against them that aren't going to show up under "Mooney".  Accepting that responsibility seems to me to obviate much of the value of a vendor AD service.  People understandably sign up for those services because they want a professional to help them be responsible for ensuring they know about all ADs applicable to their airplane.  But I'm not sure those professional services can help much with anything other than the grossly obvious.

Frankly, I think you can do about as well just monitoring our community here on Mooneyspace.  People were posting about the recent elevator counterweight AD before it even became official.  I'm certain those of us here were better informed, sooner, than someone who was waiting on Adlog or similar service to tell them about it.  And that's for an airframe AD.  We're also a lot more likely to tell you when an AD has been issued against V-band clamps on turbochargers, Garmin autopilots, etc. vs. waiting for a vendor to tell you about it.

I agree that places like Mooneyspace and the various FB groups are pretty quick to alert folks when a new AD pops up that may affect somebody.    I also agree that the appliances are a bit harder to search than the bigger things.    That said, I've found the DRS/FAA site pretty good for doing appliance searches reasonably quickly.   I sort by date and that limits the time spent to just things that have popped up in the last year or two or however long you're worried about.

When I was in A&P school we had access to the airresearch paid service, and did searches on that and on the FAA site (which was the old one at the time).   The main difference at that time was the airresearch service tagged stuff so if you found a superceding AD or a reference to another AD it was clickable, rather than having to write down the number and searching it separately or something.   So for that service the difference wasn't huge.

I did take the opportunity to use the service to make AD history records in separate .docx files for airframe, engine, and propeller, and I've just added to them since then.   Like @N201MKTurbo suggested, there are spots to mark where it was recorded, compliance method, and even why it is Not Applicable if it isn't, so a bunch of stuff that shows up that isn't applicable just says something like "NA due to S/N" or something like that.   I still have the sheets that were pretty nicely done when I bought the airplane, and I've tried to update and maintain those paper records as well as my electronic stuff in parallel.   Fortunately Mooneys don't generate a ton of ADs, and the other stuff has been easy to keep up with, so it's not too big of a deal.   If you maintain the lists, new searches are limited to what you might have missed in the last year or so, so that makes it easier.

[Skates97]

7 hours ago, toto said:

I still use ADLOG

https://adlog.com/

I use it as well and have been happy. Anytime I add/remove an appliance I email them to update my file. When I get the list each year I highlight the applicable ones referencing the previous year's list that I keep in the logbook. The ones that are permanently complied with are all signed off and kept in their own section so it's easy to find if someone is interested. 

I'm on enough sites I see the AD's throughout the year but the ADLOG system is easy to use and worth the price. I think I pay $30 a year? What does an IA charge to do the AD search for annual? I guess it's part of the annual base quote, not sure if they itemize it. I've used ADLOG since I got my plane 7 years ago and do owner assist. My IA looked through the first year looked through all the old AD's the first year to see how the permanently complied ones had been done. In subsequent years he just reviews the summary that ADLOG sends and compliance with the recurring ones. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, jamesm said:

I have tried creating my own spreadsheet it seem like every year however much like a new year's resolution I never seem to finish it or I get side track or keep changing the formatting of the spreadsheet. The last time I tried to do AD's search from the FAA AD's (DRS or whatever it's called) web site, it seem like when I did Engine or Appliance AD's, I was getting varying number of AD's  from the search output. I would try putting in say serial number or no symbols in part number / model number as means method as a cross check to verify  number of AD's were correct and valid. Since I wasn't getting the results that I was expecting I am suspecting  the my search strings are causing issue with the search engine, or am I missing something? Also helps foreknowledge of  various history of the Engine and appliances manufactures.

The reason I am asking  as I hoping to do a check ride this year (fingers crossed), one of the DPE was asking see AD's  and history. Now grant most DPE's may not look to this degree AD log but I figured if I used  well known AD database it wouldn't cause question. My thought was if I did outside AD search say every 5 to 10years it would be a way cross check my work make sure thing don't slip through the cracks. I am looking into getting my IA in the future but haven't decided yet. They are getting hard to come by.

Thanks for everyone's input.

James '67C

 

James,

I can’t imagine the DPE doing an AD search to make sure your list is complete. They only want you to show them that you know how to determine if the airplane is airworthy. Showing them a nicely made spreadsheet and being able to show the compliance sign off in the logs will probably end that portion of the check ride so you can move on to something more interesting.

[jamesm]

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

DPE doing an AD search

Perhaps I didn't articulate what I was trying say  very well.... But  as you stated below

 

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

a nicely made spreadsheet and being able to show the compliance sign off in the logs

should generate less questions and less suspicion by the DPE, that is what I am going for.

Thanks again,

James

[Pinecone]

I use Adlog also.

They send out sheets on anything that might apply.   If they are N/A, you note that and put it in the Done section.  Recurring have their own section.