High altitude flight (relatively speaking)

[rickseeman]

In the old days in my F when I came back from Vegas I did so at 11,500 for the cool air and the best tailwind. Later when I got my K (it had oxygen) I always came back at 250 for the speed. Everybody used cannulas then. I only had one problem on those flights in the F. When I got back to my hometown I couldn't find the airport. I had been here maybe 1,000 times and I couldn't find the airport? Really? I played dumb and had approach guide me in. Fast forward to 2023. Blood oxygen meters are cheap now and every geezer needs one beside his bed. I bought one for my O. (It doesn't have oxygen.) I went to Philadelphia last week. I went at 11,500. My fingers stated tingling. I don't want to tell you my numbers or you might call 911 but I think you need to buy a blood oxygen meter for your airplane. They are cheap. Even for a CB.   

[A64Pilot]

Different people have vastly different physiologies. I have a friend who ferries aircraft, and spends hours at altitudes well above requirements for O2, and seems to cope well. Others are hurting at 10,000, and smokers are probably at an O2 saturation altitude at seal level

Another thing is even if you do fine, having a low O2 saturation often gives you headaches and fatigue, and who needs that, I don’t believe you can go on O2 too early.

‘Then add in night flight, O2 somehow greatly increases visual acuity even at altitudes well below those where it’s required. Military knew that but for some reason never supplied us with O2 even in places that were pretty high altitude.

By all means get a pulse ox meter, they are cheap, but I don’t know if I trust a cheap Chinese made device all that much, in other words don’t use it to fly higher than the rules require you to be on O2 or a mask as needed.

[McMooney]

 I usually have 3, my garmin watch, samsung phone and a finger tip pulse ox.   

I pull them out anytime i fly over 6000ish feet, really helps avoiding those nagging "headaches"

[rickseeman]

I trust the Chinese ones. Every time I'm in trouble it tells me exactly what I already knew.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, McMooney said:

 I usually have 3, my garmin watch, samsung phone and a finger tip pulse ox.   

I pull them out anytime i fly over 6000ish feet, really helps avoiding those nagging "headaches"

I found that changing to in-ear headset (Halos) that my post-flight "oxygen deprivation" headaches from 2-3 hour flight at 7500-10,000 msl went away . . . .

[GaryP1007]

In the old days in my F when I came back from Vegas I did so at 11,500 for the cool air and the best tailwind. Later when I got my K (it had oxygen) I always came back at 250 for the speed. Everybody used cannulas then. I only had one problem on those flights in the F. When I got back to my hometown I couldn't find the airport. I had been here maybe 1,000 times and I couldn't find the airport? Really? I played dumb and had approach guide me in. Fast forward to 2023. Blood oxygen meters are cheap now and every geezer needs one beside his bed. I bought one for my O. (It doesn't have oxygen.) I went to Philadelphia last week. I went at 11,500. My fingers stated tingling. I don't want to tell you my numbers or you might call 911 but I think you need to buy a blood oxygen meter for your airplane. They are cheap. Even for a CB.   

I’ve made a habit of using 02 when I will be at 10k and above. Not for everyone but works for me.


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[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, rickseeman said:

In the old days in my F when I came back from Vegas I did so at 11,500 for the cool air and the best tailwind. Later when I got my K (it had oxygen) I always came back at 250 for the speed. Everybody used cannulas then. I only had one problem on those flights in the F. When I got back to my hometown I couldn't find the airport. I had been here maybe 1,000 times and I couldn't find the airport? Really? I played dumb and had approach guide me in. Fast forward to 2023. Blood oxygen meters are cheap now and every geezer needs one beside his bed. I bought one for my O. (It doesn't have oxygen.) I went to Philadelphia last week. I went at 11,500. My fingers stated tingling. I don't want to tell you my numbers or you might call 911 but I think you need to buy a blood oxygen meter for your airplane. They are cheap. Even for a CB.   

Totally agree.  I grew up flying at 14k in a ragged out cessna with my dad.  We lived at 7,000’ and I thought nothing of it.  Now if i fly above 10k for more than an hour or so, I feel it.  I have a portable D cylinder and it is a magical difference on post flight feel (and O2 in flight).  I’m going to get an inogen g5 and start using it all the time.  It’s lighter and smaller than the bottle and never needs refills.

[hubcap]

We fly on the O2 every time we go on anything other than a local flight. We usually put the cannulas on before take off and turn on the O2 at 8000’ while climbing and off at 8000’ while descending. 

[McMooney]

I keep a can or two of boost int he plane for those times i need a pick me up and i dont' feel like messing with the cannula

 

https://www.boostoxygen.com/product/large-10l-12-pack/

[Danb]

I put O2 on at 8000 ft also, wife at 12,000. Have 3 meters and three bottles of boost. At 8000ft my sat is 90 while my wife’s at 90 at 12,000, we are all different she’s had a heart attack but her blood sat is much better, I guess those stents work.

[M20F]

Should have kept the F they do 250 with no issues. 
 

 

[Ragsf15e]

10 minutes ago, M20F said:

Should have kept the F they do 250 with no issues. 
 

 

I remember seeing that you did that.  Still not sure mine would get up there.  You must have been really light.

[M20F]

1 minute ago, Ragsf15e said:

I remember seeing that you did that.  Still not sure mine would get up there.  You must have been really light.

The RayJay adds a few pounds but it makes up for it. 

[Ragsf15e]

47 minutes ago, M20F said:

The RayJay adds a few pounds but it makes up for it. 

Ahhh, that makes sense!

[rickseeman]

2 hours ago, McMooney said:

I keep a can or two of boost int he plane for those times i need a pick me up and i dont' feel like messing with the cannula

 

https://www.boostoxygen.com/product/large-10l-12-pack/

I bought some and had a can with me. I should have tested it but I needed longer term help. I went down to 9,500 and in a few minutes I got up to 80 and a little bit later it got up to 85. So I cruised there. I talked to a member here a few months ago that had a portable oxygen system for sale. I need to break away and go get it.

[M20F]

4 minutes ago, rickseeman said:

I bought some and had a can with me. I should have tested it but I needed longer term help. I went down to 9,500 and in a few minutes I got up to 80 and a little bit later it got up to 85. So I cruised there. I talked to a member here a few months ago that had a portable oxygen system for sale. I need to break away and go get it.

First step is get a new pulseox monitor.  If it is showing you at 80 then you are probably dead. 
 

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, M20F said:

First step is get a new pulseox monitor.  If it is showing you at 80 then you are probably dead. 
 

@ilovecornfields might chime in differently, but I can see being around or just below 80 and still sort of looking ok and sort of functioning but not great.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, rickseeman said:

I bought some and had a can with me. I should have tested it but I needed longer term help. I went down to 9,500 and in a few minutes I got up to 80 and a little bit later it got up to 85. So I cruised there. I talked to a member here a few months ago that had a portable oxygen system for sale. I need to break away and go get it.

Another thing that helps is taking consistent deep breaths.    It's hard to remember to keep it up, but it can make a big difference.    I've seen my saturation levels go up significantly just by doing that.

[ilovecornfields]

12 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

@ilovecornfields might chime in differently, but I can see being around or just below 80 and still sort of looking ok and sort of functioning but not great.

Well, I was resisting but since you asked…

The 80% was probably real. The phrase “got up to 80” really concerns me because most people don’t make great choices when they’re really hypoxic.

I wrote a letter to the editor recently to one of the big flying magazines who published an article about hypoxia and didn’t even mention just buying a pulse ox and using it. Crazy.

I don’t care where it’s made- the $20 pulse ox you buy on Amazon is probably WAY better at estimating your oxygen saturation than you are.

I’m not a huge fan of boost cans since when people are hypoxic for a while it can take quite a bit of time to recover. Given the cost of an oxygen system is basically a couple of tanks of fuel I really don’t understand why everyone doesn’t use it.

[EricJ]

30 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

@ilovecornfields might chime in differently, but I can see being around or just below 80 and still sort of looking ok and sort of functioning but not great.

When I did the PROTE exercise they had us write down our pulse ox numbers every minute.   I had 84, 71, 72, 64, 64%.   I was functional the whole time, but definitely impaired at the end.   I was still answering questions okay and got my mask on by myself when they ended the exercise, but my fine motor skills were crap.   I've had low numbers in the airplane, too (80s), and sometimes it seems like maybe it's a sensor consistency issue, but always worth getting concerned.

[Pinecone]

13 hours ago, hubcap said:

We fly on the O2 every time we go on anything other than a local flight. We usually put the cannulas on before take off and turn on the O2 at 8000’ while climbing and off at 8000’ while descending. 

I run a boom cannula now, which is super convenient.

I run a Mountain High O2D2 and set it in D5.  So O2 starts at 5000 feet. 

I was the the guy when we did the altitude chamber in the USAF that was functional at 250 ( I think we did the mask off at that pressure altitude, but maybe lower).  They gave up on me getting too hypoxic to function.  But now days, over 8 - 9000 and I can feel it.  O2 is cheap.

[kortopates]

[mention=15779]ilovecornfields[/mention] might chime in differently, but I can see being around or just below 80 and still sort of looking ok and sort of functioning but not great.

FTR, if my memory is correct @M20F is also a physician.
At 80% PIC status may be more accurately pilot observing rather than in command


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[kortopates]

Should have kept the F they do 250 with no issues. 
 
 

What TAS are you getting? About 155 kts?


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[M20F]

17 minutes ago, kortopates said:

FTR, if my memory is correct @M20F is also a physician.
At 80% PIC status may be more accurately pilot observing rather than in command


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Nope I am a logistics/air cargo guy but I did watch a lot of ER back in the day.  I am also a pack a day smoker for 40yrs so if my pulse ox stays above 95 at 9-11000 and yours is 80 probably not good.  

[M20F]

17 minutes ago, kortopates said:

What TAS are you getting? About 155 kts?


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I lost the MVP picture for temp when the site dumped pictures awhile ago so can’t calculate but probably about that.  FL190-210 is the sweet spot of 160-170.  After that you are losing a lot of power and the control surfaces are real slop.  I would have been around 23/26 or lower.  

I am waiting to get long range tanks because I do KJMS/KTOR to KLZU which unless things are perfect I have to stop.  Just a little more gas and it is almost always 200KTS plus GS. 
 
RayJay has been a nice tool in the chest and I have probably used it the most to top tstorms.  You can’t get over the big cells but you can get above the underneath and see them clearly to dart around them. That being said have jumped on top of some crazy stuff as well.