Opinion on pricing please.

[Mcstealth]

Folks, I am looking at an F model and would like opinions please. There are some definite positives and some equal negatives as I see it. 

 

Fresh annual
All compressions above 73
TTAF - 4752.59
TSMOH - 1810.19
TSPOH - 351.70
2 Garmin G5s
Garmin 430W
Garmin 530
JPI Engine monitor
S-TEC 50 autopilot 
Speed slope windscreen mod

 

Above  is how the plane is advertised. The positive side starts with a modernish panel. Upgraded cowl of some kind (ARI or J model I assume). J style windscreen. Low time on prop. 

Negatives start with but are not limited to: the close to TBO engine. Armature (not intended to insult owner/painter) paint job that started with a sanding of original paint and then painted over. Runs and drips are visible. Recovered vinyl at some point but still dated interior. No rips or tears. Bad carpet. AP is reported to droop to the left but not repaired at annual just last week. 

$77,000 asking. 

I have been sent the logs but have not reviewed as of yet. Do not know yet why prop is different than engine hours wise. 

Please be respectful. Do not think sellers are here but may have friends on this site. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Mcstealth

[Mcstealth]

Forgot to mention that there is no throttle quadrant. I don't take that as a positive or a negative. 

[jaylw314]

It's not rare for a prop to require overhaul at a different time from the motor.  Ask me how I know 

It should be in the prop logs though

[Utah20Gflyer]

Carpet is cheap to replace in comparison to a lot of other things.  
 

Is the paint job in good condition excluding the less than ideal initial quality?   If it’s serviceable it won’t be an item for negotiation on the price.  It’s 20k to repaint, so a significant cost if it’s something you can’t live with.  
 

Personally I greatly prefer vernier controls over a throttle quadrant.  It makes it a lot easier to make fine adjustments to the controls. 

Having a WAAS gps and an autopilot makes it a good cross country and IFR platform.  These are really expensive upgrades if you don’t have them.  The 430 is losing support but you have the avidyne as an affordable slide in  upgrade path. 
 

If the engine has been flown regularly and everything looks in good order I wouldn’t worry about 1800 hours on the engine.  You don’t have to do an overhaul at 2000 hours.  
 

The biggest issue is how the plane has been maintained.  Have things been getting attended to?  Are there lots of annuals with nothing done other than the annual itself?  How many squawks does it have?  How many INOP items.   If you know of a bunch of things that don’t work it indicates a minimalist maintenance attitude which means after you buy it there will be lots of other things you will find that have not been attended to and will cost you money.  

[KLRDMD]

9 minutes ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

The biggest issue is how the plane has been maintained.  Have things been getting attended to?  Are there lots of annuals with nothing done other than the annual itself?  How many squawks does it have?  How many INOP items.   If you know of a bunch of things that don’t work it indicates a minimalist maintenance attitude which means after you buy it there will be lots of other things you will find that have not been attended to and will cost you money.  

A lot of my annuals are done with nothing other than the annual itself as I have squawks addressed immediately during the year as they arise. I agree with the rest of the post quoted above, though. Even one INOP item gets my attention and I question the owner's maintenance regimen.

[Andy95W]

Will this be your forever airplane?  I think $77k for the equipment it has is probably in the ballpark of its value- if it’s mechanically sound.

If it’s your forever airplane, and it’s in good shape, you can take your time redoing the interior and carpet while having a solidly equipped airplane to enjoy. The paint may just need a professional to “massage” it into better shape.

Exciting time!  Good luck. 

[Mcstealth]

2 hours ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

 

Is the paint job in good condition excluding the less than ideal initial quality?   If it’s serviceable

Yes, it is serviceable. Less than 3yrs old.  I am assuming at this point the owner got the plane at a good deal, is an AP, and painted it himself. 

[Mcstealth]

33 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Will this be your forever airplane?  I think $77k for the equipment it has is probably in the ballpark of its value- if it’s mechanically sound.

First, and most likely, forever. 

[DCarlton]

Just an opinion from a guy that's owned one M20 for 20 years.  If I were buying another F or J, I would either want a fresh overhaul with great pedigree, or an airplane near TBO that I could get overhauled sooner rather than later.  I'm not a mechanic but for me, it's not just about the basic engine, it's about all the hoses and accessories that bolt to the engine.  I've had two engine related emergencies in my flying time and I'm a bit overly conservative.  I also don't want to live with a plane that spends too much time in the shop.  So.... if you spend $35K on an engine overhaul soon, would you be OK with the airplane for a while and happy with what you've got in to it.  Any damage history?  If it's a keeper it may not matter with good records.  My two cents.

[Andy95W]

11 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

First, and most likely, forever. 

I would schedule a pre-purchase inspection, preferably with a place different than the annual inspection.  Dugosh was awesome, but I’m not sure about them now.

Lastly, I’d keep researching Barnstormers, Trade-a-plane, Controller, and others to see how the equipment and price compare to other airplanes around.

Keep us posted!  You’ve been here a while, it’s time you bought your Mooney! 

[Mcstealth]

47 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

 

Keep us posted!  You’ve been here a while, it’s time you bought your Mooney! 

Shhhhhhhhh! 

[Utah20Gflyer]

5 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

A lot of my annuals are done with nothing other than the annual itself as I have squawks addressed immediately during the year as they arise. I agree with the rest of the post quoted above, though. Even one INOP item gets my attention and I question the owner's maintenance regimen.

If someone has clean annuals but is doing regular maintenance between them that wasn’t what I was trying to warn about.  It’s the plane that has 8 years of consecutive annuals with nothing else in the logbooks that concerns me.  I looked at a plane like that and at the time it made me nervous, after having owned a Mooney for a couple years I would view that as a definite red flag.  It’s just not believable that you would have zero issues with a 50 year old plane over the course of 8 years. 
 

Old planes need lots of love to keep them in good condition.  Regular attention to squawks like you are talking about indicates a plane is cared about.  
 

If a person is the type who really cares about the condition of their plane it pays to buy from someone who cared about it, otherwise you are in for a lot of work.  

[Mcstealth]

On 5/27/2023 at 3:01 PM, Utah20Gflyer said:

If someone has clean annuals but is doing regular maintenance between them that wasn’t what I was trying to warn about.  It’s the plane that has 8 years of consecutive annuals with nothing else in the logbooks that concerns me.  I looked at a plane like that and at the time it made me nervous, after having owned a Mooney for a couple years I would view that as a definite red flag.  It’s just not believable that you would have zero issues with a 50 year old plane over the course of 8 years. 
 

Old planes need lots of love to keep them in good condition.  Regular attention to squawks like you are talking about indicates a plane is cared about.  
 

If a person is the type who really cares about the condition of their plane it pays to buy from someone who cared about it, otherwise you are in for a lot of work.  

Just now sitting down to go through the logs. Pre-buy scheduled. Let's see what they say.

[Danb]

The prebuy is invaluable, based on current knowledge