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Replacing Entry Door Seal

Speed Merchant
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Speed Merchant Rising Star

Speed Merchant

Posted
Posted

I am about to start my annual. One of the items on my fix it list is a new door seal.  The reason I want to replace the seal is that if I don't open the door for a month or so the seal gets stuck to the door frame and my pulling the door open pulls the seal loose from the door.  I have reglued it a number of times but the seal eventually sticks to the frame and I reglue it again. I think the seal was originally glued to the door with yellow 1300L. Where should I buy the seal? Is there a newer technology glue that I should consider? How big of a pain is it to bond the new seal on? Can the job be done without removing the door? Any words of wisdom will be appreciated! 

Happy New Year!!

Fly Boomer Grand Master

Fly Boomer

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Speed Merchant said:

I am about to start my annual. One of the items on my fix it list is a new door seal.  The reason I want to replace the seal is that if I don't open the door for a month or so the seal gets stuck to the door frame and my pulling the door open pulls the seal loose from the door.  I have reglued it a number of times but the seal eventually sticks to the frame and I reglue it again. I think the seal was originally glued to the door with yellow 1300L. Where should I buy the seal? Is there a newer technology glue that I should consider? How big of a pain is it to bond the new seal on? Can the job be done without removing the door? Any words of wisdom will be appreciated! 

Happy New Year!!

My SMM says to paint on some silicone goop.  I'd be surprised if it would stick to anything.

  • Like 1
PT20J Grand Master

PT20J

Posted
Posted

I rub a little clear silicone plumbers grease on the seal a couple of times a year to keep it from sticking.

3M yellow super weatherstrip adhesive works well and gives you a bit if working time to get the seal properly positioned. You need to get the old glue off with 3m general purpose adhesive remover. 

Mooney used to use a seal of thin rubber with a foam core. This product is no longer available which is just as well as the foam goes flat after a while. Mooney switched to a Brown Aircraft Supply https://www.brownaircraft.com/Default.asp T-9088 P-seal. That’s what I used and it works fine if you get it properly positioned. It’s $9.90/ft though. 

  • Like 1
LANCECASPER Grand Master

LANCECASPER

Posted
Posted

https://aerocessories.aero/collections/mooney-collection/products/mooney-all-variants?variant=31403794104386

 

I did one of these back in 2021 on a Bravo I used to own.

The eventual finished result was very satisfactory, but I am glad that it was me doing the work under supervision and that I wasn't paying someone $100 an hour. I don't even want to guess how many hours I had into it. When the people before you use 3M Super Weatherstrip Adhesive (yellow), plan on several hours for removal. (That adhesive is great on some applications, just not this one, since adjustments are necessary after installation.) Get a few cans of 3M Adhesive remover, which really helps.

Also I am really glad that I live an hour away from the owner of the STC and he offered to come over and help. The product is excellent but the instructions are cryptic at best. Hopefully they have improved since then. It requires a lot of adjustment with silicone shim material, especially near the arm attach point at the bottom of the door, which I had no clue about. The adhesive they use though is excellent. It allows for removal and adjustment easily. 

If any two Mooney doors and openings came out of Kerrville exactly alike it was purely coincidence. But going through this process taught me the reasons why it is so often that you have cabin door leaks on a Mooney. If you just glue a seal on there without "test fly, inflate, note leak areas, land, adjust, allow sealant to set overnight and repeat", you will trade one leaky door seal for another. On my Acclaim if I end up having to replace the factory seal I will still do the Bob Fields, but I won't necessarily look forward to it. Although the next time I will know what to expect and the lessons learned will be helpful. But that being said I think to do a good door seal job with any of seals out there it's going to take some adjustment to get it right. If I am going to go to all of that work to get it right, I'm going to use the inflatable again. The cost of the seal is inconsequential to the time spent getting it just right. 

  • Like 2
PT20J Grand Master

PT20J

Posted
Posted

The problem with the 3M yellow adhesive is that many people use way too much of it. The instructions say to apply a thin coat. Also, applying more adhesive over old without removing the old causes buildups. You have to spray on the adhesive remover and then let it soak a while to soften the adhesive.

The Mooney door latches at the aft side and the top. The hinge holds the front, but nothing holds the bottom, so that’s where it tends to seal poorly. Unfortunately, the door shape does not exactly match the opening shape, especially in the corners. I found it best to remove the right front seat so that I could lay on the floor and mark the door sill curvature on the door with a sharpie to get the placement right. You can check the fit of the seal by closing the door on a piece of typing paper and then tugging on the paper. It will be obvious where the seal isn’t good if you do this all the way around the door.

  • Like 3
Skyland Enthusiast

Skyland

Posted
Posted

This is the door seal I installed on my J about five years ago.  I recall spending an hour or two using lacquer thinner to remove the old adhesive.  Very satisfied with the seal and it's performing well.  Never had to treat it with any anti-stick substance but I do leave the door ajar while parked in the hanger.  When parked out on a ramp for a day or more it may stick for a few seconds when popping the door latch.  Nothing more than a gentle pull to open.

https://www.knots2u.net/door-seal-entry-door-mooney-m20-series-ads-m1201/

  • Like 2
0TreeLemur Grand Master

0TreeLemur

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Skyland said:

This is the door seal I installed on my J about five years ago.  I recall spending an hour or two using lacquer thinner to remove the old adhesive.  Very satisfied with the seal and it's performing well.  Never had to treat it with any anti-stick substance but I do leave the door ajar while parked in the hanger.  When parked out on a ramp for a day or more it may stick for a few seconds when popping the door latch.  Nothing more than a gentle pull to open.

https://www.knots2u.net/door-seal-entry-door-mooney-m20-series-ads-m1201/

I've tried three different door seals, including one of those.   What worked best for me was a three-ribbed closed cell foam rubber seal that I learned about on these hallowed pages.  Google search is your friend.

  • Like 1
A64Pilot Grand Master

A64Pilot

Posted
Posted

Mine came with the inflatable seal, but it makes no difference inflated or deflated, it just doesn't leak.

You can’t feel or hear one, I even used tissue paper to try to find a leak, so I just don’t inflate it.

Mark89114 Experienced

Mark89114

Posted
Posted

This seems to be an ongoing topic.......I have nothing positive to add.  Mine leaked, bought the knots to U door seal, spent many hours removing the old one which came off in crumb size pieces, glued the new one on carefully and the damn thing leaks more now than it did before.  My friend did the same kit and no improvement.  I think the huge variety of handbuilt door dimensions is the issue.  I think what I am going to do to correct mine is carefully slice it open and insert additional pieces of foam to build it up in the areas where it leaks.  Or try the inflatable door seal which for some reason isn't approved for the ovations, but my mechanic says he will sign off as some type of field approval/minor modification.  

Tommooney Community Regular

Tommooney

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Skyland said:

This is the door seal I installed on my J about five years ago.  I recall spending an hour or two using lacquer thinner to remove the old adhesive.  Very satisfied with the seal and it's performing well.  Never had to treat it with any anti-stick substance but I do leave the door ajar while parked in the hanger.  When parked out on a ramp for a day or more it may stick for a few seconds when popping the door latch.  Nothing more than a gentle pull to open.

https://www.knots2u.net/door-seal-entry-door-mooney-m20-series-ads-m1201/

 

I have the exact R&R experience with this K2U door seal ( except used 3M product for removal )  , and also leave 3 doors all cracked when in hanger so seals don't stay crushed, with towel over to keep dust out. I use a lube product once a year to keep it fresh longer. 

Replaced two times in 19 years. Seems to last about 8-12 years before getting too dried out and crumbly, leaking air and water.

Thanks for the suggestion: Gummi Pflege Stift' Rubber Care Stick. I'll try it.

Good luck

Tom

Speed Merchant Rising Star

Speed Merchant

Posted
  • Author
Posted
23 hours ago, PT20J said:

I rub a little clear silicone plumbers grease on the seal a couple of times a year to keep it from sticking.

3M yellow super weatherstrip adhesive works well and gives you a bit if working time to get the seal properly positioned. You need to get the old glue off with 3m general purpose adhesive remover. 

Mooney used to use a seal of thin rubber with a foam core. This product is no longer available which is just as well as the foam goes flat after a while. Mooney switched to a Brown Aircraft Supply https://www.brownaircraft.com/Default.asp T-9088 P-seal. That’s what I used and it works fine if you get it properly positioned. It’s $9.90/ft though. 

Thanks PT20J- I ordered the silicon Don recommended. I am going to glue the seal back in one more time and coat it with the silicone. If it comes loose again I will replace it.

Happy New Year!

Speed Merchant Rising Star

Speed Merchant

Posted
  • Author
Posted
20 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

https://aerocessories.aero/collections/mooney-collection/products/mooney-all-variants?variant=31403794104386

 

I did one of these back in 2021 on a Bravo I used to own.

The eventual finished result was very satisfactory, but I am glad that it was me doing the work under supervision and that I wasn't paying someone $100 an hour. I don't even want to guess how many hours I had into it. When the people before you use 3M Super Weatherstrip Adhesive (yellow), plan on several hours for removal. (That adhesive is great on some applications, just not this one, since adjustments are necessary after installation.) Get a few cans of 3M Adhesive remover, which really helps.

Also I am really glad that I live an hour away from the owner of the STC and he offered to come over and help. The product is excellent but the instructions are cryptic at best. Hopefully they have improved since then. It requires a lot of adjustment with silicone shim material, especially near the arm attach point at the bottom of the door, which I had no clue about. The adhesive they use though is excellent. It allows for removal and adjustment easily. 

If any two Mooney doors and openings came out of Kerrville exactly alike it was purely coincidence. But going through this process taught me the reasons why it is so often that you have cabin door leaks on a Mooney. If you just glue a seal on there without "test fly, inflate, note leak areas, land, adjust, allow sealant to set overnight and repeat", you will trade one leaky door seal for another. On my Acclaim if I end up having to replace the factory seal I will still do the Bob Fields, but I won't necessarily look forward to it. Although the next time I will know what to expect and the lessons learned will be helpful. But that being said I think to do a good door seal job with any of seals out there it's going to take some adjustment to get it right. If I am going to go to all of that work to get it right, I'm going to use the inflatable again. The cost of the seal is inconsequential to the time spent getting it just right. 

Thank you very much for your post. I appreciate your comments. Happy New Year.

Speed Merchant Rising Star

Speed Merchant

Posted
  • Author
Posted
19 hours ago, PT20J said:

The problem with the 3M yellow adhesive is that many people use way too much of it. The instructions say to apply a thin coat. Also, applying more adhesive over old without removing the old causes buildups. You have to spray on the adhesive remover and then let it soak a while to soften the adhesive.

The Mooney door latches at the aft side and the top. The hinge holds the front, but nothing holds the bottom, so that’s where it tends to seal poorly. Unfortunately, the door shape does not exactly match the opening shape, especially in the corners. I found it best to remove the right front seat so that I could lay on the floor and mark the door sill curvature on the door with a sharpie to get the placement right. You can check the fit of the seal by closing the door on a piece of typing paper and then tugging on the paper. It will be obvious where the seal isn’t good if you do this all the way around the door.

Thanks for your comments. I am going to put them to use. Happy New Year

Speed Merchant Rising Star

Speed Merchant

Posted
  • Author
Posted
15 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

I've tried three different door seals, including one of those.   What worked best for me was a three-ribbed closed cell foam rubber seal that I learned about on these hallowed pages.  Google search is your friend.

Skyland thanks for your help I will check out the product on the Knots2U website. I appreciate your help.

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