Verify ATC IFR Routing via FlightAware ?

[midlifeflyer]

3 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Yes. 

Another example of the problem with an amendment to conform to the expected route to try to get an "as filed."

[MikeOH]

I've simply never understood the obsession (well, it seems that's what it is!) for getting an "as filed" clearance.  Saving that 30 seconds of radio time just doesn't rise above the noise level of concern for me.

Personally, I like hearing and confirming what I'm going to fly...oh, well, I'm just inefficient, I guess

[Marauder]

I've simply never understood the obsession (well, it seems that's what it is!) for getting an "as filed" clearance.  Saving that 30 seconds of radio time just doesn't rise above the noise level of concern for me.
Personally, I like hearing and confirming what I'm going to fly...oh, well, I'm just inefficient, I guess

It comes down to the difference between old school IFR and new school IFR. When I got my instrument rating, there was no GPS routing. You filed the Victor airways and you sat there with your paper and wrote down what you got versus what you filed. You got in the plane, tuned the first VOR and radial and off you went. Simple enough.

Now throw in a GPS with 5 letter waypoints. You file, it is accepted and you meander over to your GPS and take 5 minutes to plug it in. You call up for your clearance and you get a totally different alphabet soup to load up. And then to make it even more irritating for you, they give you a waypoint that can be spelled 10 different ways. Was it “JERRY” or “GERRY” or “JERRI”? Oh wait, it is “GEERI”.

You would think in the age of modern computers, the algorithms would be there to figure out and provide the routing you will get.

We can only hope PDC is fully implemented and we can stop the “guess me if you can” shenanigans.


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[carusoam]

Wait a second…

Does this question get easier…

When you really understand computers… and their general operations….?

 

Not being a computer guru myself…

When I signed into MS the first time… I picked a logical name for a screen name…

When I could have selected something a bit more fun… like wicked fast normally aspirated Mooney….

 

Who is our OP?
What is his screen name?

Why is his screen name identical to his question?

 

We may need to sloooow things down a bit…

to keep @ATC Routing in FlightAware abreast of his own situation…

Oddly, he hasn’t come back lately… except to post the same thing a second time… 

 

 

Where’d ya go ATC Routing?

Best regards,

-a-

[MikeOH]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

Where’d ya go ATC Routing?

Best regards,

-a-

To GERRI, or was it JERRY?

[MikeOH]

8 hours ago, Marauder said:

It comes down to the difference between old school IFR and new school IFR. When I got my instrument rating, there was no GPS routing. You filed the Victor airways and you sat there with your paper and wrote down what you got versus what you filed. You got in the plane, tuned the first VOR and radial and off you went. Simple enough.

Now throw in a GPS with 5 letter waypoints. You file, it is accepted and you meander over to your GPS and take 5 minutes to plug it in. You call up for your clearance and you get a totally different alphabet soup to load up. And then to make it even more irritating for you, they give you a waypoint that can be spelled 10 different ways. Was it “JERRY” or “GERRY” or “JERRI”? Oh wait, it is “GEERI”.

You would think in the age of modern computers, the algorithms would be there to figure out and provide the routing you will get.

We can only hope PDC is fully implemented and we can stop the “guess me if you can” shenanigans.


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I learned “old school” so maybe that’s part of it.

But, I don’t see the need to set myself up like the above description.  I file. Climb in plane. Call CD/ground. Copy clearance. Read back. Put in first couple fixes. Go fly…it’s going change anyway!

Until CPDLC is available I’m not going to trust an “as filed” clearance even if I ever get one!

[Pinecone]

Old school you REALLY wanted to hear As Filed.

Otherwise after you got your clearance, you had to figure out where it went on those paper charts.

And enroute, you really hated to get an amended clearance, so you had to do that in the air.

 

Yesterday, I filed using the Fore Flight recommended route.  I got an email to expect that route.  Flight Aware said the same thing.  When I called for my clearance, it was totally different.   Later I found an email from ForeFlight that my expected routing had been changed, to what I actually got.

At least now days they spell every named intersection and give you the ID of any VOR or airport used in your route.

 

 

[Marauder]

I learned “old school” so maybe that’s part of it.
But, I don’t see the need to set myself up like the above description.  I file. Climb in plane. Call CD/ground. Copy clearance. Read back. Put in first couple fixes. Go fly…it’s going change anyway!
Until CPDLC is available I’m not going to trust an “as filed” clearance even if I ever get one!

I think what you mentioned is the key to how to manage it. Write it down and then just enter the first couple of waypoints. I found, especially here in the northeast, the clearance I was assigned doesn’t last long. So the effort of putting in the whole clearance, including GEERI, usually was wasted energy.


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[Marauder]

Old school you REALLY wanted to hear As Filed.
Otherwise after you got your clearance, you had to figure out where it went on those paper charts.
And enroute, you really hated to get an amended clearance, so you had to do that in the air.
 
Yesterday, I filed using the Fore Flight recommended route.  I got an email to expect that route.  Flight Aware said the same thing.  When I called for my clearance, it was totally different.   Later I found an email from ForeFlight that my expected routing had been changed, to what I actually got.
At least now days they spell every named intersection and give you the ID of any VOR or airport used in your route.
 
 

Yep, the “unknown” of where the clearance would take you was always in the back of my mind. Especially when you realized the routing would take you over the Atlantic on your way to Nantucket.


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[201er]

20 hours ago, Marauder said:

Was it “JERRY” or “GERRY” or “JERRI”? Oh wait, it is “GEERI”.

If it’s out by you, it’s spelled Modena 

[Marauder]

If it’s out by you, it’s spelled Modena 

You’ll be happy to know they are working on a new “Modena”. With the TFR coming up frequently, they are proposing a new location for that always assigned departure waypoint.

I think they should label it “STINKY” out of respect to you.


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[carusoam]

So you say…

Modena is going cold? Now that’s funky!

Sorry… just had to…

-a-

[carusoam]

Another day….
 

The OP still hasn’t come back to pick up the clearance answers…

Best regards,

-a-

[Pinecone]

12 hours ago, Marauder said:

I think what you mentioned is the key to how to manage it. Write it down and then just enter the first couple of waypoints. I found, especially here in the northeast, the clearance I was assigned doesn’t last long. So the effort of putting in the whole clearance, including GEERI, usually was wasted energy.


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Hmm, last two days, my clearance did not change from the one I got from Clearance Delivery, except for a couple of Directs.  But those were for fixes on my routing, so very easy to go direct to a fix already in the flight plan in the Garmin 650.

[joepilotmooney]

You can also file an IFR plan in FF for 8 hours out and see what the expected clearance will be, then CX or amend the plan to include what is expected (if no past route clearances are given by FF). Anyone else ever try this?

[laytonl]

I use FltPlan.com to file my flight plans. I like their gui much better than FF.  FltPlan.com list several recent filed routes vs. actual routes.  Using this, I just about always get ‘As filed’ clearances in the Southeast.  Lee

[midlifeflyer]

4 hours ago, joepilotmooney said:

You can also file an IFR plan in FF for 8 hours out and see what the expected clearance will be, then CX or amend the plan to include what is expected (if no past route clearances are given by FF). Anyone else ever try this?

I have filed and then canceled “would this work?” flight plans to get an idea whether it might “fly” with the Center computer. But I’m under no illusion that then”expected” route from FF guarantees it’s what my actual clearance would be,

With a flight I’m taking within the next 8 hours, I’ll stick with my previous comments. I can’t even imagining bothering to file an amendment if a new flight plan and take the risk of getting an “as filed” without being certain which “filed” ATC was referring to.

If you need practice copying clearances, get some,

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, laytonl said:

I use FltPlan.com to file my flight plans. I like their gui much better than FF.  FltPlan.com list several recent filed routes vs. actual routes.  Using this, I just about always get ‘As filed’ clearances in the Southeast.  Lee

I do the same with the same result using the similar feature in Foreflight.

But yes, the feature in FltPlan.com has always been a little more robust and I refer to it sometimes.

[Ibra]

On 10/10/2022 at 1:15 AM, MikeOH said:

Personally, I like hearing and confirming what I'm going to fly...oh, well, I'm just inefficient, I guess

Come on who does not like "Read back correct" and pax in RHS saying "Wow, Blimey" 

"Cleared as filed," "pls, remind me what I have filed" 

We rarely get "cleared as filed" in Europe from small airports at piston GA altitudes, when I get it, I become suspicious that ask to clarify at least my initial departure portion, sometimes there is a surprise !

The funny part is the naming convention for SID in Garmin versus naming in the Jeppsen or sate plates, so ATC tend to spell and split the whole departure instruction for you, they are just as inefficient as well...

Maybe one day Garmin would recognise ATC voice in COM input and plot it as NAV output for me? In the meantime with G430W, I just ask and if I am not sure, I get clarifications: it's nice to talk to someone (other than therapist) and repeat what he says

 

[midlifeflyer]

I still wake up sometimes at night wondering what this pilot filed…

 

 

[PT20J]

I don’t sweat it. I just file what I want, take what they give me, and negotiate with the controllers once airborne. With an autopilot, programming the GPS is pretty easy. If I get a reroute to a nearby fix or airway and don’t have time to program the GPS, I just ask for a vector. 

[Pinecone]

21 hours ago, joepilotmooney said:

You can also file an IFR plan in FF for 8 hours out and see what the expected clearance will be, then CX or amend the plan to include what is expected (if no past route clearances are given by FF). Anyone else ever try this?

I do it all the time.  I just file direct, then when I get the expected routing, I do an Amend Flight Plan, with that as the filed routing.  Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[McMooney]

why do you bother to amend ?  i just accept what is sent back via gp.  50% of the time i get exactly that other 50% I get alphabet soup.  seriously some days i think they roll the dice every 15 mins to see where to send me next 8).  also i'm a bit spoiled as i have  gns480 which is much improved over  430 for entering flight plans.  wish i was totally spoiled by being able to transfer via tablet

 

[MikeOH]

11 minutes ago, McMooney said:

i have  gns480 which is much improved over  430 for entering flight plans.  wish i was totally spoiled by being able to transfer via tablet

 

Interesting phraseology...for those that might not be aware, the GNS480 (aka CNX80 from UPS/Apollo prior to Garmin's acquisition and discontinuance of a superior product) pre-dated the GNS430W/530W (not the 430/530 non-WAAS).  So, really, the 430W is rather much degraded over the GNS480

[hubcap]

Flying out in the Midwest like I do, I get “cleared direct” most of the time….like 99%. We do get re-routes from time to time for the usual reasons, most often an active MOA. With the Garmin, re-routes are easily accomplished.