Almost emergency

[RobertGary1]

Right after preflight before getting in the plane my pocket started to feel warm, then hot, then unbearable. I was standing so I was able to grab my pocket from the outside and just push everything out to fly out. I had a battery in my pocket to replace my headset back up battery. Apparently it melted down. Not sure how I'd be able to get it out if I were sitting down. The battery was so hot on the ground I couldn't even touch it.

[Marauder]

Right after preflight before getting in the plane my pocket started to feel warm, then hot, then unbearable. I was standing so I was able to grab my pocket from the outside and just push everything out to fly out. I had a battery in my pocket to replace my headset back up battery. Apparently it melted down. Not sure how I'd be able to get it out if I were sitting down. The battery was so hot on the ground I couldn't even touch it.

Lithium?


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[EricJ]

Was there anything else conductive in your pocket that could have contacted the battery?

 

[Shadrach]

Standard AA battery? Never heard of anything like what you experienced. Weird…

[PeteMc]

What @EricJ said...  Odds are you had something in your pocket that connected the + and - terminals/polls of the battery.  Basically you caused a short circuit. 

[Mooney in Oz]

2 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Right after preflight before getting in the plane my pocket started to feel warm, then hot, then unbearable. I was standing so I was able to grab my pocket from the outside and just push everything out to fly out. I had a battery in my pocket to replace my headset back up battery. Apparently it melted down. Not sure how I'd be able to get it out if I were sitting down. The battery was so hot on the ground I couldn't even touch it.

In April this year, a chartered B58 Baron crashed short of the runway at Kununurra airport in Western Australia. The pilot suffered serious injuries and the male passenger, a nurse was sadly killed.

The pilot reported the aircraft was on fire, however in the initial ATSB report it was not elaborated whether the fire started in the cabin, engine or in another part of the aircraft. Speculation is rife the fire started from a laptop computer lithium battery, however this will not be confirmed until the final report is published.

I know of 2 instances in Australia where individual passenger mobile phones caught fire in the cabin and inflight on a SAAB 340 and a Boeing 737. Both were caused by lithium battery thermal runaway.

After reading the B58 crash,  I purchased a fireproof bag and gloves that are stowed in the pocket at the back of my Mooney’s passenger seat in the very unlikely event this happens to me.  I hope I never have to use them.

I can think of nothing worse than an uncontained, inflight fire in our small Mooney cabins. 

I’m glad you did not experience this event in flight Robert, as any inflight fire is dangerous, no matter the battery size.

[201er]

9 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

I had a battery in my pocket to replace my headset back up battery. Apparently it melted down. Not sure how I'd be able to get it out if I were sitting down. The battery was so hot on the ground I couldn't even touch it.

Liar liar pants on fire.

Don’t think you’d have enjoyed being in the hot seat.

I left a lithium USB charge pack in a rental car in Houston over night or during the day and found it blown up the next day. It expanded so much it popped the plastic casing.

 

[carusoam]

+1 for pics of the battery and pockets…

Glad you didn’t get a worse injury!

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

The battery was a 9v, which ironically wasn't even the right battery for my headset :(. At first I thought it was my airpods overheating. Not sure if the airpods touched the terminals on the 9v, I don't think they're conductive. Maybe a coin in my pocket. 

 

-Robert

[EricJ]

5 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

The battery was a 9v, which ironically wasn't even the right battery for my headset :(. At first I thought it was my airpods overheating. Not sure if the airpods touched the terminals on the 9v, I don't think they're conductive. Maybe a coin in my pocket. 

 

-Robert

9Vs are the worst candidates for inadvertent discharge due to the terminal configuration.    I'd bet it just got shorted by something in your pocket.    They're best carried isolated or with at least one terminal covered or kept in packaging.

 

[M20F-1968]

On 7/20/2022 at 3:15 PM, Mooney in Oz said:

In April this year, a chartered B58 Baron crashed short of the runway at Kununurra airport in Western Australia. The pilot suffered serious injuries and the male passenger, a nurse was sadly killed.

The pilot reported the aircraft was on fire, however in the initial ATSB report it was not elaborated whether the fire started in the cabin, engine or in another part of the aircraft. Speculation is rife the fire started from a laptop computer lithium battery, however this will not be confirmed until the final report is published.

I know of 2 instances in Australia where individual passenger mobile phones caught fire in the cabin and inflight on a SAAB 340 and a Boeing 737. Both were caused by lithium battery thermal runaway.

After reading the B58 crash,  I purchased a fireproof bag and gloves that are stowed in the pocket at the back of my Mooney’s passenger seat in the very unlikely event this happens to me.  I hope I never have to use them.

I can think of nothing worse than an uncontained, inflight fire in our small Mooney cabins. 

I’m glad you did not experience this event in flight Robert, as any inflight fire is dangerous, no matter the battery size.

I have been concerned about lithium batteries so the only thing I have with me with lithium is a laptop and an Ipad.  Can you post info about the fireproof items you pruchased?

John Breda

[Sixstring2k]

This week at my job a coworker headlamp battery pop while he was using it, left a third degree burn right on his forehead. If batteries are acting funny, not charging, charging to fast or any weird signs just tossed them out. 

[Pinecone]

You can get specific lithium bags from RC hoobby sources.  They are used typically while charging.

Lithium batteries normally fail while charging or discharging, not just sitting in storage. TYPICALLY, there are exceptions.

You do NOT want to fully contain them, otherwise you create a bomb.  The bags are porous. They keep the flames and heat inside, but do allow the gases to escape

 

 

[Mooney in Oz]

8 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

I have been concerned about lithium batteries so the only thing I have with me with lithium is a laptop and an Ipad.  Can you post info about the fireproof items you pruchased?

John Breda

G'day John.

https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B08R61GSYW/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B08LSP8DJN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These are from the Australian Amazon website. The US site is obviously much more extensive.

Hope it helps.

[PeteMc]

14 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

The US site is obviously much more extensive.

The link you posted for the bag appears to be out of  stock.  I was surprised how much the cost has dropped, when I looked at fireproof bags for batteries a couple of years ago they were $50 - $100US, now they're $20 - $40US.  Here's on page I pulled up on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com.au/s?k=lithium+battery+fireproof+bag&ref=nb_sb_noss

[RobertGary1]

On 7/24/2022 at 1:21 PM, PeteMc said:

The link you posted for the bag appears to be out of  stock.  I was surprised how much the cost has dropped, when I looked at fireproof bags for batteries a couple of years ago they were $50 - $100US, now they're $20 - $40US.  Here's on page I pulled up on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com.au/s?k=lithium+battery+fireproof+bag&ref=nb_sb_noss

Not available jn the United States 

[Marauder]

Not available jn the United States 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=lipo+fireproof+bag&crid=3PEULOU2BB7UC&sprefix=lipo+fire%2Caps%2C72&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9

There is a huge selection of LiPo fireproof bags. Look for ones that show a fire rating and if you intend on using the bag for charging and storage, look for ones that have a cable access port to allow your charging cables in.


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[RobertGary1]

6 hours ago, Marauder said:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=lipo+fireproof+bag&crid=3PEULOU2BB7UC&sprefix=lipo+fire%2Caps%2C72&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_9

There is a huge selection of LiPo fireproof bags. Look for ones that show a fire rating and if you intend on using the bag for charging and storage, look for ones that have a cable access port to allow your charging cables in.


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Does it still work if the fire is inside the bag? Those are designed to protect documents for house fires. 

[40_Year_Dream]

I put a small piece of blue painter's tape over the terminals of my spare 9V I keep on hand for my headset. Easily removed when the battery is needed.

 

As far as the LiPo charging bags commonly used in the RC hobby world: 

https://www.towerhobbies.com/search?q=battery+bag&search-button=&lang=default

I use one of these - but have never had an 'incident' to find out how good they are at protection.  Should give a couple of minutes margin, at least.

[Marauder]

Does it still work if the fire is inside the bag? Those are designed to protect documents for house fires. 

The link I posted is for bags designed to charge and store lithium batteries. Here is a description from one of them:




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[Pinecone]

The lipo bags can keep the heat and flame in.  But they cannot contain the smoke and gases developed.

 

[Marauder]

The lipo bags can keep the heat and flame in.  But they cannot contain the smoke and gases developed.
 

There is a joke in there involving fat people…

Thanks for pointing out the smoke piece. All of these bags are designed to contain the fire but are not sealed so that they can’t build up pressure and explode. I’m not sure I found any that are smoke containing. For usage in an airplane, my thought was if it did smoke, it easier to dissipate the smoke than it would be to deal with the fire aspect. The one i have is just large enough to hold my Anker battery pack and the lithium batteries I use in my headsets. I wonder how hot the bag gets. It is small enough to toss out of the window.


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[RobertGary1]

Sports claims airlines and military use this. It doesn’t say it retains smoke. It does so he contains explosions which I hadn’t considered. 
https://www.sportys.com/tablet-fire-containment-bag.html

[Marauder]

Sports claims airlines and military use this. It doesn’t say it retains smoke. It does so he contains explosions which I hadn’t considered. 
https://www.sportys.com/tablet-fire-containment-bag.html

The way these batteries fail is a slow expansion of the battery without a fire or explosion or a rapid expansion leading to a fire and/or “explosion”. If you ever used magnesium as a fire starter, it behaves like this. Except in the case of a lithium battery, the lithium is contained in a sealed container that and depending on the size of the battery and ignition rate, will either cause an aggressive fire or an aggressive explosive fire.

I think these bags are designed to contain the fire and to some extent the rapid expansion (“explosion”) without compromising of the case. If you think about it, having an airtight container that won’t let the smoke out would also create a situation where gas pressure would cause the protective container to rupture. That is why I don’t use the pouch kind. I use a slightly bigger one that allows more space for the smoke to accumulate.

There is still a risk with an iPad or cell phone battery going off, but I am more worried about the larger battery bank I carry around. Especially those that are made by companies where you have no idea about their quality control. For your viewing pleasure:

This is the style of bag I use:

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