Need help on deciding about purchasing a Mooney.

[Mooney Dog]

4 hours ago, thundermustard said:

sub-$200K

Id say look for a good E or J model with the avionics you'd be happy with. I true out my E around 150 easily and have flown in coast to coast a few times.

It is not cheaper to own vs rent, as other have said. The mooney also doesnt carry as much, but it gets there faster! 

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

Prices might come down as interest rates rise so people can't just borrow endless cash and all the stimulus money dries up.

Where do I get the stimulus money?  I want to get some before it all dries up.

[Fly Boomer]

5 hours ago, thundermustard said:

So, if I was to start looking what information can you give me that helps?

Start by reading adverts on Controller.  As of a couple of minutes ago, 54 available:

https://www.controller.com/listings/for-sale/mooney/aircraft?Manufacturer=MOONEY

[FlyingDude]

10 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Where do I get the stimulus money?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/30/who-is-eligible-for-1400-stimulus-checks-with-their-2021-tax-returns.html#:~:text=To be eligible for a,or %24150%2C000 for married couples.

 

[Fly Boomer]

10 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/30/who-is-eligible-for-1400-stimulus-checks-with-their-2021-tax-returns.html#:~:text=To be eligible for a,or %24150%2C000 for married couples.

 

Rats.  Missed the boat again.  So close.

[Schllc]

If budgetary constraints are hard lines then I think renting is the only feasible option. 
If you decide to buy, you should buy the best that you can afford and have at least enough to replace an engine in reserve or available without jeopardizing your security.
When I started looking for my first plane, the original plan was to get something for 60-90 (double that in todays dollars). After research and looking I ended up spending close to 300, and I don’t regret it one single second or cent. 
While I realize this isn’t an option for everyone the principle is the same.  
Your safety as well as convenience is a factor here, and you owe it to yourself and your family to buy the safest platform you can afford. 
If you can swing it, and get a Mooney you will never regret it!

Mooney rules!

[Marauder]

I'd have most of those with either - except the gnc355 - that is an additional $500 so that puts it at $18,120. My break even is ~80 hours - with no issues ;o).
and my oil change is per ($125 x 4)
I fly (flight hours - startup to shutdown) about 125 to 150 hours a year -- tach hours of course vary.
Ditto on prevention.
BTW, when I do my oil change, I also do the 25 hour check list too. Found missing nuts or loose items that way. Clean engine at the same time...
Also, don't forget tools you'll need if you do your own maintenance-- that can run cost up there too...
Edit:
Forgot IFR cert every 2 years - $500 ($250 a year)
so now $18,620 and about 83 hours to just about break even... that's ~7 hours a month minimum of flying...
and my plane is paid for too...
not a cheap 'hobby'...
-Don

Adds up fast, doesn’t it?


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[Fly Boomer]

9 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Adds up fast, doesn’t it?

I have lots of "I'm sure I'll need that someday" stuff.

[MikeOH]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

Adds up fast, doesn’t it?


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YUUUP!

I've got a good start on making my small fortune in aviation

[Schllc]

24 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

YUUUP!

I've got a good start on making my small fortune in aviation

Making a small fortune

or

making a fortune small   

 

[MikeOH]

7 minutes ago, Schllc said:

Making a small fortune

or

making a fortune small   

 

EXACTLY the latter!

[Austintatious]

Some good advice in this thread... I have a lot of comments but most have been covered in here so I dont feel my opinion on those topics has any more value to add...

However, I have not seen one thing mentioned and I think it needs to be said.

Have a good bead on a mechanic or shop that is honorable and capable of working on whatever you buy.  Finding good honest mechanics close to home has been an absolute BANE to me.  I have had to suffer multiple disappointments and financial losses do to incompetent mechanics and borderline charlatans.

[ZuluZulu]

11 hours ago, thundermustard said:

I know there are tons of threads out there on pre-purchase advice on Mooneys. But every instance is different so please forgive me for starting a new one.

I got my PPL in April of this year. I really wanted to buy a plane so I wouldn't be at the whim of my greedy flight school for rentals.

But the market was pretty close to peaking in the spring of 2022 so I couldn't find the plane for me.

Doing research I fell in love with the Mooney's efficiency and speed.

In the meantime, I joined a flying club where I have access to a 172 and a 182. I am currently working on my IFR training in the 172, after that is finished my plan is to get an HP endorsement on the 182 and then use it for trips.

Now the market seems to have peaked. Having said that, I do think I am happy, for at least the next year, with my current option.

But, maybe waiting six months, for prices to come down more, then having a year to turn a diamond in the rough into my perfect Mooney might make sense.

So, if I was to start looking what information can you give me that helps?

I currently am able to fit two foldable bikes in the backseat of the 172. I would like to be able to do that, so a backseat at least as big as a 172s. Are they all? Or just the stretch models.

I am on the east coast so a turbo isn't a necessity. My kids live in Washington state though, so a flight to them would be helped by a turbo. 

Most of my flying would be within 300 miles. Having said that, my mother is in Florida so being able to travel at 155 kts would be great for a couple of long trips a year. Faster obviously would be icing on the cake

Oh yeah budget. I would really like to be sub-$200K, the subber the better . As I said, it could be spent on an upgraded plane or I think I have time to spend it on upgrades myself. If I spent $200K I would want a low-hour engine as my budget would be maxed out.
 

Thanks,

 

You didn't mention filling the seats as part of your mission, and it's a terrible idea to "max out" your budget on an airplane since the purchase price is merely the price of entry.  Or in other words, a license to spend more money, in chunks of 1+ AMU at a time.  Since it sounds like you're folding the back seats down or removing them for cargo storage anyway, it makes no sense to pay a premium for extra leg room in an M20J or M20K if no one is going to be back there to enjoy it.  Instead, spend $100k or less on a nice M20C, M20D/C, or M20E, spend half of the remaining $100k on upgrades, and save the rest for surprises, maintenance, and smashing bugs.  And don't do any upgrades until you've flown it for at least 6 months, verified the engine is good, and found all the little things that are wrong.  Get everything ready to buy first, including any financing, and then be ready to pounce on a good airplane when it comes along.  If you don't know how to tell a good airplane yet, start shopping the listings every week, ask questions, and get on Jimmy Garrison's list.

A better plan might be staying in the club, getting involved in managing maintenance as you get more comfortable, serve as the maintenance officer for at least a year, and THEN buy.  That should at least introduce you to the local shops and give you an idea of who you might want to work on your own future plane (or, equally valuable, who might not).

[carusoam]

Oddly…

The less specific you make in the original post…

The more broad the responses get…

1) Great budget

2) Do you want 180hp or 310hp?

3) Do you want Fiki, or sunny days only?

4) Are you on a CB budget for operations… aka retired.

5) Are you a fan of WAAS GPSi?

6) Beating up the rentals because of their unfair financial practices… you will find they aren’t that unfair…

7) There are plenty of things wrong with rentals, finances aren’t the limiting factor…

8) How do you feel about planes built in the 60s? Do you prefer something newer?

Add some details…

You are in command of this thread… keep it focussed! 
 

Start with an M20J fly it until you know what you want… then buy that Mooney!

This is perfect for recession planning… the next Mooney’s price will get adjusted similarly to the Mooney you buy today…. Trade one for the other…

Do not wait…. It takes about a year to define, find, purchase, insure, and train in your first airplane….

PP thoughts only, not a financial engineer…. 

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[cliffy]

A couple of NEVERS to bear in mind-

NEVER buy the first airplane you look at NEVER NEVER NEVER  You don't know enough about them to make a good decision Start looking at all Mooneys you see at the airports you travel to now with an eye to how they look and present themselves. You need an education before you buy. Look at a dozen or more of all models  This ain't like buying a car and when was the last time you bought a 30 to 50 year old car?  Slow down and smell the roses first.

NEVER believe anything anyone selling an airplane says to you. PERIOD!  ALL airplanes for sale have hidden issues Your job is to find as many of them as you can  BEFORE you hand over money. Check EVERYTHING yourself-every switch, radio, lever light, instrument all log books, ADs, papers FAA records (337s) Check everything yourself !

NEVER but any airplane without a GOOD pre-purchase inspection by someone who knows that particular type of airplane. Make damn sure the PPI includes all the serial numbers and correct legal types of large parts (engine. prop, each and every radio, digital screens, all the big items must match what is in the log books and TCDS). 

Many sad stories right here on MS by purchasing without a good PPI. Some have purchased sight unseen and lived to regret it. 

Find the book "How to Buy a Used Airplane Without Taking a Dive" and read it!!!!!  (AMAZON)

But the best airplane you can afford EQUIPPED  as close to what you finally want - you will ALWAYS be money ahead that way. 

Plan on 15% of your purchase price for the first annual inspection to handle the second NEVER line above!!!!

Always get an insurance quote BEFORE you ever commit to buy any airplane. 

ALWAYS have a written purchase contract signed by both parties   (READ THE ABOVE MENTIONED BOOK)

After 50+ years in this aviation world that's how I would do it. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by cliffy
add

[McMooney]

It cost me approx 10 to 12k a year before birdy is pulled out her hangar,  add fuel, oil, maint res., incidentals,  your looking at 175 to 200$ an hr @ 100 hrs per year.  Nothing about it makes any sort of sense, but, I wouldn't change a thing.

  It's amazing, if you have the bug and resources just do it.  realize it's a commitment.  honestly think of myself more as a steward than an owner, do everything possible to keep her up.

I had an annual performed instead of the ppi.  had them open anything that could possibly corrode.  thought being everything can be replaced, including the engine but corrosion will kill her.  

Just a note, the rear seat in my E, folds down for cargo.  honestly, should prob take it out, none have ever ridden in the backseat. hmmm.

 

[DCarlton]

I haven't ran the annual cost of ownership numbers in years.  After looking at some of the posts, I may keep my head in the sand...  

[Marauder]

I haven't ran the annual cost of ownership numbers in years.  After looking at some of the posts, I may keep my head in the sand...  

At times I wished I did too. It was pretty sobering when I calculated what I spent over 31 years.


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[Danb]

I’m not into numbers regarding my airplane, golf, vacations or even gambling all of which are costly. I’ll agree we spend between $20 & 50k a year without much going wrong. I rationalize this,  what my alternatives would be without my enjoyments. Sit home read books sew knit do puzzles all are of which ok if that’s what you desire. I generally have purchased new planes which eliminates prebuys and other peoples disregard to caring for their plane eliminating a lot of unknowns. I’ll know when it becomes to much to own to own and care for my plane properly at which time a sale sign will go out.
My recommendation is put enough funding aside for two years of ownership, figuring on the high side. Once calculated you hide the $100,000 in your sock drawer which does not include acquisition costs. This provides for being ready for the unexpected.. when you drift below your sock drawer line work on replenishing it. 
If this rationale doesn’t make sense ownership may be out of the question. My point is flying is expensive. No shame in rentals what could be shameful is not being prepared for  ownership and have it taken away. I had a friend many years who had his plane repossessed.

 

 

[thundermustard]

Thanks for all the great input.

I know that if you could reliably rent a flight school plane whenever you wanted it would be cheaper than owning.

But as many have pointed out, that isn't an option. Good luck renting a school plane for a flight to NY for a three day trip that only takes four hours on the Hobbs meter. 

My flying club is pretty wide open for reserving so that is probably where I should stay. 

But you still don't have the full freedom that many of you enjoy (and are paying dearly for).

I should have added I am retired so my schedule is flexible.
For that reason I don't think FIKI is an important option. I would be flexible enough to avoid flying when icing would be a concern.

In fact most of my flying would probably be day trips in New England between June and October when icing is not a big concern (sure there could be icing on the in early June or late October but much less likely).

I like the advice to buy the plane with the upgraded panel as it will be cheaper that way then doing it from scratch.

Lots to think about.