TIPS FOR NOT BUSTING STEP DOWN ALTITUDES ?

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, M20F said:

I believe my paragraph 2 covers that.  I would also add the USAF drastically accelerates the training and has other variables (i.e. getting shot at while flying Mach 2 in a jet).  Totally different skill sets, capabilities of instructors, and a hugely different performance envelope. 
 
When I was a new instrument pilot I always made a habit out of flying the approach in MS Flightsim a couple times.  Chair flying as you cite is a good substitute as well and often used by acrobatic pilots in GA. 

I stand by my opinion (and it is an opinion) that if you are doing calculus to fly a step down approach you probably shouldn’t be flying one.  To be a competent IFR pilot one needs to be able to in an emergency shoot any approach with potential equipment failures.  It certainly takes time and some practice to get to that point, but math equations on charts and some other other nonsense on this thread in my opinion have nothing to do with it. 

Well I definitely got shot at and flew some approaches to mins, but doing them at the same time would’ve been a lot more fun! 

[T. Peterson]

On 7/3/2022 at 11:12 AM, DCarlton said:

The IAF is fairly low on this plate, but I'm curious where most folks would drop their gear?  Thanks.

Either at or just before the FAF. Do it that way EVERY time to create a habit that will help prevent a gear up landing. No value to dragging gear from IAF, and you certainly don’t want to fly level in a fully configured airplane. Same with a visual approach. Just do it at the same place. If you like dropping the gear abeam the numbers in the pattern, do it that way consistently and you may tell your wife, “abeam the numbers, gear down.” If she isn’t there say it to yourself aloud. 

[T. Peterson]

On 7/5/2022 at 4:53 PM, M20F said:

I believe my paragraph 2 covers that.  I would also add the USAF drastically accelerates the training and has other variables (i.e. getting shot at while flying Mach 2 in a jet).  Totally different skill sets, capabilities of instructors, and a hugely different performance envelope. 
 
When I was a new instrument pilot I always made a habit out of flying the approach in MS Flightsim a couple times.  Chair flying as you cite is a good substitute as well and often used by acrobatic pilots in GA. 

I stand by my opinion (and it is an opinion) that if you are doing calculus to fly a step down approach you probably shouldn’t be flying one.  To be a competent IFR pilot one needs to be able to in an emergency shoot any approach with potential equipment failures.  It certainly takes time and some practice to get to that point, but math equations on charts and some other other nonsense on this thread in my opinion have nothing to do with it. 

If you can multiply and divide by 3 you are golden!! Any more complicated than that and I would have to turn in my wings!

[Hank]

3 hours ago, T. Peterson said:

Either at or just before the FAF. Do it that way EVERY time to create a habit that will help prevent a gear up landing. No value to dragging gear from IAF, and you certainly don’t want to fly level in a fully configured airplane. Same with a visual approach. Just do it at the same place. If you like dropping the gear abeam the numbers in the pattern, do it that way consistently and you may tell your wife, “abeam the numbers, gear down.” If she isn’t there say it to yourself aloud. 

Yep. I use the gear to start descent from the FAF, or on downwind abeam my intended point of landing. 

On approach, I drop the gear 1-1/2 dots before intercepting the glideslope, and she will come right down as desired. 

[Mooney in Oz]

14 hours ago, T. Peterson said:

Either at or just before the FAF. Do it that way EVERY time to create a habit that will help prevent a gear up landing. No value to dragging gear from IAF, and you certainly don’t want to fly level in a fully configured airplane. Same with a visual approach. Just do it at the same place. Thanks 

G’day Torrey,

In IMC conducting an instrument approach, I prefer to drop the gear at the IAF or IF (10 miles) at the latest as 5 miles is way too close for my comfort.

Habits have merit when visual and help with distractions. However in IMC during the final leg of an approach, if it suddenly gets busy whether having to deal with ATC or other multiple aircraft at uncontrolled fields that suddenly call up, appear on the traffic display, on the ground or any other issue then distraction can easily happen.

A major cause of gear up landings is distraction.

If IMC there is no need to drag the aircraft in any of the approach segments.  Unless a chart restriction applies, a low IAF restriction of 2,000’ does not mean you have to be at 2,000’ all the way to the chart descent point.

At the IAF (assuming 15 miles with no ATC restrictions) I select gear down and commence descent from 4,500’ AGL (3 x 15 - assuming no terrain and field is at SL) at a 3 degree profile all the way to the MAP or runway if visual at the MAP.  I believe this method also reduces the risk of busting step down altitudes as indicated by the OP in the thread title.

By the time I’m at the FAF, the gear is down, aircraft configured, checklist is complete and I’m fully conversant with the missed approach procedure. When inside 5 miles, all I need to do is monitor the descent in accordance with the chart and I’m ready for anything that’s thrown at me.

A 5 mile final when visual in a quite environment is mundane, but in IMC during an approach with sudden distractions, time passes incredibly fast.

The above is what I was taught years ago by a highly experienced check and training Captain that I’ve carry through to my Mooney flying instrument approaches and works well for me. 

An afterthought - Commencing an approach in IMC, a gear malfunction is easier to deal with at 15 miles at 4,500’ rather than 5 miles at 1,500’ during the final descent phase.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Mooney in Oz said:

An afterthought - Commencing an approach in IMC, a gear malfunction is easier to deal with at 15 miles at 4,500’ rather than 5 miles at 1,500’ during the final descent phase.

Just fly the miss. That's what I did after a complete electrical failure when I selected Gear Down crossing the VOR on a VOR-A in the mountains. 

[Mooney in Oz]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

Just fly the miss. That's what I did after a complete electrical failure when I selected Gear Down crossing the VOR on a VOR-A in the mountains. 

I agree with you Hank, but I think it’s still easier to deal with when no missed approach is necessary.

Did this happen to you at night?

[Hank]

Just now, Mooney in Oz said:

I agree with you Hank, but I think it’s still easier to deal with when no missed approach is necessary.

Did this happen to you at night?

Late evening after work but before sunset.

[Mooney in Oz]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

Late evening after work but before sunset.

Thank goodness it didn’t happen at night.

[T. Peterson]

2 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

G’day Troy,

In IMC conducting an instrument approach, I prefer to drop the gear at the IAF or IF (10 miles) at the latest as 5 miles is way too close for my comfort.

Habits have merit when visual and help with distractions. However in IMC during the final leg of an approach, if it suddenly gets busy whether having to deal with ATC or other multiple aircraft at uncontrolled fields that suddenly call up, appear on the traffic display, on the ground or any other issue then distraction can easily happen.

A major cause of gear up landings is distraction.

If IMC there is no need to drag the aircraft in any of the approach segments.  Unless a chart restriction applies, a low IAF restriction of 2,000’ does not mean you have to be at 2,000’ all the way to the chart descent point.

At the IAF (assuming 15 miles with no ATC restrictions) I select gear down and commence descent from 4,500’ AGL (3 x 15 - assuming no terrain and field is at SL) at a 3 degree profile all the way to the MAP or runway if visual at the MAP.  I believe this method also reduces the risk of busting step down altitudes as indicated by the OP in the thread title.

By the time I’m at the FAF, the gear is down, aircraft configured, checklist is complete and I’m fully conversant with the missed approach procedure. When inside 5 miles, all I need to do is monitor the descent in accordance with the chart and I’m ready for anything that’s thrown at me.

A 5 mile final when visual in a quite environment is mundane, but in IMC during an approach with sudden distractions, time passes incredibly fast.

The above is what I was taught years ago by a highly experienced check and training Captain that I’ve carry through to my Mooney flying instrument approaches and works well for me. 

An afterthought - Commencing an approach in IMC, a gear malfunction is easier to deal with at 15 miles at 4,500’ rather than 5 miles at 1,500’ during the final descent phase.

By all means fly what is comfortable. For me, I would never fly 15 miles with the gear down. That doesn’t make me right and you wrong, just different.

Torrey

[Mooney in Oz]

9 hours ago, T. Peterson said:

By all means fly what is comfortable. For me, I would never fly 15 miles with the gear down. That doesn’t make me right and you wrong, just different.

Torrey

No worries Torrey and apologies for getting your name wrong. Corrected accordingly.

[T. Peterson]

13 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

No worries Torrey and apologies for getting your name wrong. Corrected accordingly.

No sweat! Have a wonderful day!

[rbp]

On 6/29/2022 at 10:58 PM, DCarlton said:

I guess you would put it in the maintaining category.  Getting distracted by whatever (fiddling with NAV/COMM, etc) and dropping below.  

trim. trim. trim.